First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

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Paul T
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First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by Paul T » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:19 am

Hi folks,

I had to put my hunting on hold for a few years when I moved over here (to the states), from Ireland. But I recently became a permanent resident here, so I'm now able to pick it back up. I got a black lab (canoe lab) pup from SnowGooseKennels (North of Syracuse, NY), 'Clon' is his name. Great little fella. So here is what I've got so far (he is 5.5 months):

Good on the whistle (sit, stay, come)
Good at heel
Good with retrieves (still working on it, as he takes the scenic route back to me occasionally in open ground) and hand signals (using baseball - he sits on the pitchers mound, I stand on home plate, I throw a dummy to first or third, and release him to pick up (with a hand-signal and command), I have not shown him 'go back' to second base yet - thats next).
Great in cover from what I've seen so far.
Great in the water.

A video from when he was 4 months:
https://youtu.be/Zx4QD67jg9o

NEXT:
blind retrieves.
longer retrieves.
Intro to gun shot.
Quartering (he is doing this somewhat naturally anyway, and I always keep him ahead of me when we are out).

He seems to be learning quicker than I expected. What's the extent of hunting I should do with him this season? Once comfortable with the shot, then shoot a few birds over him in a few weeks? I want to make sure he knows he is a gun dog before the long off-season sets in again next year. Any seasoned advice here would be great.

Also, any body training dogs in the Webster, NY area? I'm doing lots of "yard work" with him (3/4's of acre: open ground, and have some cover), other than that it's pretty much public land where ever I can find it. Always looking for good, fairly secluded places to work, especially around water.

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bumper52
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by bumper52 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:35 pm

First of all, the dog is definitely off to a great start. However, blind retrieves are way down the road. My best advice is to get a good program and follow it. I use Evan Graham's Smartwork series. Very user friendly....detailed step by step...plenty of videos on line. Personally, I feel your dog is ready to collar condition to here and sit. (If you are planning on using an e-collar.) Since it seems you are going to be handling your dog, the e-collar is the best tool to reinforce corrections at a distance. As far as hunting, I would continue to focus on basic obedience. Throw lots of single marks...increase distances and type of cover, making sure your dog is successful. Make it fun. They learn to hunt soon enough. People with good intentions have created more problems that need to fixed later by hunting a dog too soon. I would avoid multiple marks for awhile, as this can lead to bad habits such as head swinging, indecisiveness, etc. Don't push the dog too quickly. It's a marathon...not a sprint.

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gundogguy
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by gundogguy » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:38 am

At 22 weeks of age you are covering a lot of ground. I would suspect his teeth are starting to settle down. I may have over looked it but you did not mention any thing about a trained retrieve or force fetched retrieve. Now is really the time to to approach that while your pup has not figured out how to avoid commands in the areas that you seem interested.
Bumper52 mentioned Evan Graham's Smartwork system of training a retriever whether it be non-slip or upland, a fine program, i heartily recommend.
Hal
I'm 100% in favor of LGBT - Liberty, Guns, Bacon and Trump.

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crackerd
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by crackerd » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:34 am

What's a "canoe Lab?" - that an Irish thing, or wouldn't it be known instead as a "punt Lab?"

MG

Timewise65
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by Timewise65 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:03 am

Paul...
I have had gun dog retrievers for over 25 years. I work with pro trainers and do a lot of my own training. AS noted above training these dogs is a marathon.

You have covered a lot with a very young dog, he is really like a 2 year old child...except he can run! But mentally, he is very immature. I am suspect that many of the things you are seeing, like wondering on the way back, is just a maturity issue. Young dogs frequently struggle with 'focus'....just like a kid!

The two posts above are perfect that training program is my favorite. Another key part of training is the force fetching. If you have never done this with a retriever, I would suggest you find a pro who will do just that part of your training. That training process will increase the enthusiasm for fetching and delivering to hand. It also is usually finished up by using an e-collar, so the dog is fully trained for you to use an E-collar to reinforce the dogs behavior.
Good Luck

duckn66
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by duckn66 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:33 pm

Your getting way to far ahead and skipping many essential things with it. Get a good program and follow it. If you don't want to pay the $$ for a good program go to Dobbs training center online or get the book "the ten minute retriever". Both have valuable information and are free/cheap. Bottom line is get a program(s) and follow them.

Paul T
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by Paul T » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:37 pm

Great stuff, chaps, thanks for the replies! Very useful stuff.

I will definitely take a more gradual approach to the training. As regards a program, I do have some DVD's, but I'm not sure it matches your definition of a "program"? It's Chris Akins "Duck Dog" series (1, 2 & 3). I'm also reading some older books from Richard Wolters, "Game Dog" and "water dog".
As far as "Evan Graham's Smartwork" goes, I'm happy to invest if i have to, but before I do, does anyone know how different that one is to Chris Akins??

On the forced retrieve versus trained retrieve comment, as this age, it's all definitely trained. He has a strong natural interest, and to try and keep that going I've been using games -> not holding him steady, I bring him into a room and just toss a dummy around, as soon as he gives it to me i toss it away again, it seems to build up an eagerness to deliver to hand when we go back out - thats probably a popular trick, I know both Wolters and Akin uses that.

ha, I'm not sure about the "canoe lab", I don't think that's the official name, just a term for a smaller lab I guess. As long as he can carry ducks/pheasant, and quest upland, I don't mind what size he is!

I don't intend to use an e-collar. Does everyone here use one in their training? maybe something to consider

Paul T
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by Paul T » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:13 am

On the e-collar, the reason I wasn't keen on it was due to the fact I have never used one, or have never seen one in use. I spent some time at "driven hunts" years ago, and all I ever heard from the dogs handlers was negative comments about the "shock collars", as if it was a shortcut or something.

Having watched Akin and read this forum though, it seems to be a pretty fundamental tool. Certainly the result in the dogs precision looks impressive (Akins dogs anyway).

Still interested to hear if anyone here does not use one though.

Paul T
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Re: First time training a lab retriever from scratch.

Post by Paul T » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:27 pm

Training went well - 7 pheasants for the season (he's turning 1 this month).
I used the e-collar for some stuff - definitely a good tool.
Akin's DVD set is a great resource.

I gave him his first hunt down at Pheasant Hollow in Bloomfield, NY - I worked with Lorraine to get him going, a great spot to hunt if you are in the area.

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