Retriever will not return pigeons

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bcoogs
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Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by bcoogs » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:52 pm

I am new to field training. I have a 5 month old female Flat Coat Retriever I am about 4 weeks into field training. I am using 10 Minute Retriever and Water Dog as my reference books. The dog has been getting basic command training since week 12, and is doing a great job retrieving dummies. I introduced dead pigeon this week and the dog does great on "back" command and races straight out to thrown bird. Lots of enthusiasm, but will not pick the pigeon up and return it. She just pulls at it and hops around tearing out feathers. She occasionally grabs a wing and runs away.

Books say keep working with bird and do not re-introduce dummies until she retrieves the dead pigeon. But I am on day 4 and getting no better results. I would love to know how folks with experience have handled this. Go back to dummies? Tie wings on dummies......or keep only offering bird until I get a good retrieve?

polmaise
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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by polmaise » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:01 pm

never mind the books .
Mind the dod.
Stick with dummies and shape the behaviour .
It's a baby.

duckn66
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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by duckn66 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:56 pm

Maybe gonehuntin will chime in on this.

If it were me I'd grab a bird and put it in his mouth gently and tell him good boy. Toss the bird, (get him really excited over the bird first) out a ways then turn around and walk away briskly all the while telling him "come on, good boy, come on". Clap your hands and make a really big deal out of it when he picks it up and brings it towards you.

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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by Moulders Farm » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:43 pm

All puppys are different the book or movies not always right remember it a puppy or as said a baby just keep repeting the comands and work slow make it fun at this stage do not get mad or up tight just go to something he does & likes then work back slowly . training a puppy that young takes a loving hand & make it fun for him & your self . you are training your son to play ball

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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by Trekmoor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:55 am

Since she is only 5 months old I'd stop worrying about this. Just work her with dummies/bumpers or any other fairly soft article until her retrieve is consistent for another month or three.
When you do re-introduce a pigeon as the retrieve try putting it inside a section of a lady's nylon stocking knotted to hold the bird firmly inside. When she retrieves that O.K. you can cut little slits in the nylon to let progressively more feathers and the birds head protrude from the nylon.
Eventually there will be more of the bird and less of the nylon but by then the bitch will be used to retrieving pigeons.... I have done the same thing with many dogs using hen pheasants and so far, it has always worked.

P.S. This is probably stating the obvious but do not do all of this in just one day using only one pigeon.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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gundogguy
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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by gundogguy » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:59 am

polmaise wrote:never mind the books .
Mind the dod.
Stick with dummies and shape the behaviour .
It's a baby.
Right-on! Heck the pups teeth have probable not even settled yet. Take your time or else you will have real complaints about the pups training later on when you enter transition.

Hal
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bcoogs
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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by bcoogs » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:59 am

Thank you all. This is exactly why I joined the forum. I appreciate all the advice. I am trying to take it slow and enjoy the process and the time well spent with her.

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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by Timewise65 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:31 am

I have been a retriever guy for over 30 years now. I have 3 Golden's right now. I also hunt waterfowl and any thing with feathers.....

I am not a fan of either 10 Minute Retriever or Water Dog! The first one, is of no use! Waterdog is a good look back at the old ways of training and has a lot of good information about training in General. Modern training has gone way beyond this...

At 12 weeks you dog should be working strictly on basic obedience, without this being well trained into the dogs behavior, and attempt to go beyond this will create more problems than what the dog can actually learn, without basic obedience.

Retriever basic obedience consists of these few commands, given in the order they are taught....

Heal - do so when told to, follow me at heal when I walk, follow me at heal when I turn both right and left. When I stop walking, sit at heal...Dog should heal on your left side if you shoot right handed and visa versa...

Sit - sit when I command sit, do it at anytime I tell you to. If away from me when I command Sit, sit looking directly at me, body must be aligned looking at me also..(No whistle yet, get a command sit trained first)

Down - lay down when I command down. If away from me lay down facing me.

Here - Come to me when I call you, come fast and come to heal! Most important, must be well trained, can save the dogs life or prevent injury. e.g. dog bolts to chase a cat across the highway. Or dog is chasing a rabbit towards a barbwire fence.

Drop or Give - use only one of these for command! Dog will drop whatever is has in its mouth....this command can save the dogs life...e.g. if a pill is dropped around the dog...

Kennel - Get in your kennel now!

These are the foundation of a good retriever program. Some will add a few more, but regardless these must be taught well with a better than 95% success when command is given. It takes time and patient to get these correct. Do not over train, young dogs cannot stay focused for long periods, I think 2 or 3 sessions 30 minutes a day followed by some simple but fun play. It is ok to use treats at this point, but at the dog matures maybe at 6-8 months the reward of love and play is all they need. I usually start out with 6 weeks in obedience class with other dogs, if you do this be sure the training covers the commands above and does not use clickers or some other trick to key the dog, you voice and relationship with the dog at this point is a critical part of this early training.

As far as programs to follow I prefer these, but other good ones are available.

Sound Beginnings Retriever Training DVD with Jackie Mertens

Evan Graham's Retriever Training Books & DVDs -- SMARTWORKS

They can be found on http://www.gundogsupply.com or just search on Amazon.com

Sound beginnings is specifically retriever puppy training and obedience. Evan Graham's books and/or DVD's are a total training program for retrievers...step by step! Many others offer the total retriever training, but I have used these and like them best...

Good Luck

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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by DonF » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:02 am

First off it's a puppy, just look's full grown! Next you are sending it to retrieve a dead bird and it's not on a check cord. As such you cannot control the pup! Get on your knees with the pup on about a 20' check cord and excite the pup with the bird up close. Then toss it a bit and soon as the pup start's playing foolish game's pull it back to you with out the bird. Won't be long and the pup will likely grab a hold of the bird. Reel it back in but do not grab the bird, grab the pup and bring it in to you and start stroking it's off side with one hand and hold under it's collar with the other. Let it settle down a bit! Finally, last stroke on the off side, get to the flank and hook two finger's under the flap of skin and start lifting the pup. At the same time use whatever release command you'll use and quickly get a hold of the bird, the pup will simply let go to remove your finger's. It can't do that with something in it's mouth. soon as you have the bird in hand, straighten out your finger's and drop the pup..

You are not controling the pup by letting it go to a down bird where you have no control. Shorten the range of the retrieve to about 20'. A dog that won't retrieve at 20', won't retrieve and 21'+ either! Don't take the bird away to soon, settle the pup down first. Let it hold the bird a bit if it want's. When you take it, require it give up the bird itself, don't fool with it's mouth, don't blow in it's ear. Simply ask for the bird and lift the flank at the same time and release the flank soon as you have the bird. I have ever only seen one dog that didn't work extremely well with. Don't do it till the pup quits, do it till you get one or maybe two good retrieves, relatively speaking, and you quit with it.

Now you might also keep a whole dead bird in the freezer and take it out about 20min-1/2hr before starting. Let the bird thaw enough that the neck won't break when you toss it and the ice is gone from the feather's. Fresh killed bird is warm and soft and will get pretty wet after few time's in the pup's mouth.

Pay attention to what your training. You throw a fresh killed bird for a pup off a CC and you are opening up play time, your teaching the pup it can sometimes make it's own rules!
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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:41 pm

Image

]Why give her a dead bird? That's wrong. Get her chasing and catching clip wings. If she drops or doesn't pick up the bird, it'll get away. Don't use any force on the dog, it's a puppy problem. Mine retrieve clippers from 8 weeks on to get used to handling birds. Just throw a few clippers and she'll be fine. And don't tell my you don't have access to birds. I'd actually make her first bird a clip wing quail, then use pigeons. She's a baby.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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crackerd
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Re: Retriever will not return pigeons

Post by crackerd » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:03 am

Bill, can't you and Robt. in the name of comity get that flatcoat wummern friend of y'alls from overseas to intercede here :wink: (No further comment :lol: ) - OK, you've twisted my arm: One further comment for the OP. Get through to Judy Gladson of Victory Retrievers (website: http://www.victoryretrievers.com/Victor ... /Home.html ) who has trained up flatties to the MH level and find out all about their "idiosyncrasies" - Ms. Gladson would be most helpful.
Trekmoor wrote:Since she is only 5 months old I'd stop worrying about this. Just work her with dummies/bumpers or any other fairly soft article until her retrieve is consistent for another month or three.
When you do re-introduce a pigeon as the retrieve try putting it inside a section of a lady's nylon stocking knotted to hold the bird firmly inside. When she retrieves that O.K. you can cut little slits in the nylon to let progressively more feathers and the birds head protrude from the nylon.
Eventually there will be more of the bird and less of the nylon but by then the bitch will be used to retrieving pigeons.... I have done the same thing with many dogs using hen pheasants and so far, it has always worked.

P.S. This is probably stating the obvious but do not do all of this in just one day using only one pigeon.

Bill T.

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