Gun Dog Forum

I am picking up our new Brittany pup next week and I am thinking about what I want to do with birds for training. It has been a number of years since my last bird dog and our living situation has changed since then as well. We live on 160 acres with approximately 60 being pasture. We have at least one covey of wild quail that lives near our home and I believe another cover that lives near a small pond. The pasture is leased for cattle but the owner does not overgraze and only keeps 6-12 cow/calf pairs. The habitat is very suitable for quail.

I do not have any bird launchers, but they are something I would like to get down the road. I am not too excited about pigeons, but it sure seems like a lot of guys use them. Right now I do not know what training plan I am going to follow. I have two neighbors that hunt with me and they both have young dogs as well.

Who here would prefer to build a coop and get homing pigeons and who would build a few johnny houses for quail? Reasons for your preferences are appreciated. Thank you!

You're a lucky man! Wild quail are great for starting pup off. The birds will teach pup that he can't catch them. Pen raised quail are not suggested as a good idea here, because it is easy for the young dog to catch them - not what you want. They are very useful in later training. Most of us? use hard flying pigeons because we don't have wild quail. If I had hard flying quail readily available , I 'm not sure I'd bother with pigeons initially . I would use them for steadying to flush etc later on.

Both?

A pen full of homing pigeons is great for training steady.

A johnny house full of strong flying recall birds is great for finishing the dog.

The few coveys of wild birds are the best for working a young pup.

Sam--
Pigeons work best because the dog can't catch them like they do pen raised quail. Your wild quail will also teach the dog he can't catch them. You can shoot a few pen raised quail as you go to teach the dog she can get her mouth on them ONLY with you help. Your pigeons will return and you can use them over and over saving you money(also your adult pigeons you don't shoot will have tons of babies you can shoot). Hawks and varmits will put a hurt to your $4 & $5 pen raised quail before they get back to the johnny house. JMO :roll: Doug

Since you have friends with young dogs you can get together and one guy kicks up the pigeon while the other has the check cord on the dog--that way you don't need a launcher to begin with. Launchers are great, but you can get by without them if you have helpers.

Pigeons work best. Quail can be a headache and waste of money.

bustingcover wrote:Pigeons work best. Quail can be a headache and waste of money.

And pigeons live a whole lot longer!

True , but if you read his first post, he is talking about using his WILD quail.

Sharon wrote:True , but if you read his first post, he is talking about using his WILD quail.

No, he asked about Johnny House quail.
pigeons are the least expensive for steadying the pup. Quail are expensive, die easy , are hawk bait and are easy for the pup to catch. T wild quail should work great for steadying, except a bit difficult to control.
Getting a good stop on the pup will make it take a lot less birds....................Cj

bustingcover wrote:Pigeons work best. Quail can be a headache and waste of money.

Right-on!Right-on!

Thanks for the replies so far. I am sure there is a ton of information on how to work pigeons and I will search further, but I guess I don’t really see how you work pigeons without a launcher. If you dizzy them, won’t the dog be able to catch them? If you don’t dizzy them, won’t the bird just fly away?

I would absolutely NOT introduce any pen-raised quail into the environment you described. Sharon is right. Get pup into those wild quail at the earliest opportunity. The issue there is, you can't anticipate what might happen because...they are wild and could be anywhere. The upside is pup won't catch them. That's priceless for a young pup but later on you need to instill fundamental formal manners around birds. If you persist, you might in fact inadvertently be teaching pup that chasing after quail IS how we play this game. ....not good. You will need to recognize when to transition into a more structured process.
As an aside, I've also found that wild quail that are regularly harassed will move out. Moving out not only reduces your chances for finding them again but it also puts them at risk. As they move into a new area away from pressure, they may find themselves moving right into new unanticipated perils - not good.
Releasing pen-raised birds into an area even remotely close to wild birds is the kiss-of-death for those wild birds. We did the same locally for pheasants....BIG mistake!
Pigeons are the way to go. The greatest hurdle when using pigeons is the human factor. Many seem to consider pigeons second-rate birds for training. ??? I had a chap tell me, "My dog refuses to point those stinking pieces of ____!" Hmmm.....wonder why?
For me, wild hard flying pigeons are front-and-center. I get exactly what I want in a training situation where I need to know where the bird is, which way the wind is blowing, etc. so that the training can unfold as planned with minimal if any intervention by the human contingent. Pigeons are rarely if ever caught, don't land 80-100 yards away for an exuberant, misbehaving, fast dog to catch, and they cost less than pen-raised birds typically.

True , but if you read his first post, he is talking about using his WILD quail.[/quote Sharon

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No, he asked about Johnny House quail.
pigeons are the least expensive for steadying the pup. Quail are expensive, die easy , are hawk bait and are easy for the pup to catch. T wild quail should work great for steadying, except a bit difficult to control.
Getting a good stop on the pup will make it take a lot less birds....................Cj[/quote]

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quote Sharon : Okay , I feel like arguing today. He wondered if he needed pigeons because :

"We have at least one covey of wild quail that lives near our home and I believe another cover that lives near a small pond." quote JHawk

Sharon wrote: Okay , I feel like arguing today. :)He wondered if he needed pigeons because :

"We have at least one covey of wild quail that lives near our home and I believe another cover that lives near a small pond."

Who here would prefer to build a coop and get homing pigeons and who would build a few johnny houses for quail?

You might want to go back and read the whole thing before you argue too much.

Yep. He mentioned JH quail specifically.

slistoe wrote: You might want to go back and read the whole thing before you argue too much.

Easy on the Tiger
Like most threads , it takes more from the old ones on here to post after the new ones say something ? ...Hmmm... Like it's I'll piss on your post .
...
Quail or Pigeons ?. heck the Op ain't got the pup out the truck yet !

Sold a guy 14 pigeon's today. It was 5+ hr drive for him. He's taking them home and letting them pair up. He's got his duck's in a row. Most people buy them and use them for shooter's! Next year he'll have to shoot bird's to keep from being over run!

No reason not to use both.

One major benefit of pigeons is they get up and leave, hopefully, this give the dog less incentive to chase.