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Casting

Casting

Postby TurkeyDog » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:57 pm

So my dog is casting pretty well and steady to release for bumpers. I have a couple of questions though. I'm trying to incorporate the whistle to get him to stop mid retrieve and cast to another bumper. He's sitting fine on the whistle But when he's running the line, he's too excited to notice the whistle. How do you correct this? Also, I play traffic cop and release him to retrieve from that on his name. Now, when I stop him casting for bumpers, and try To send him on another cast, he stared at the bumper he was originally going to. If I say his name to get his attention, he assumes im releasing him to go after the original bumper. Sorry if that was confusing. I just wonder if his name was a bad release command?
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Re: Casting

Postby crackerd » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:37 am

TurkeyDog wrote:So my dog is casting pretty well and steady to release for bumpers. I have a couple of questions though. I'm trying to incorporate the whistle to get him to stop mid retrieve and cast to another bumper. He's sitting fine on the whistle But when he's running the line, he's too excited to notice the whistle. How do you correct this? Also, I play traffic cop and release him to retrieve from that on his name. Now, when I stop him casting for bumpers, and try To send him on another cast, he stared at the bumper he was originally going to. If I say his name to get his attention, he assumes im releasing him to go after the original bumper. Sorry if that was confusing. I just wonder if his name was a bad release command?


Not a good idea. NOT a good idea - at all. If you're training the dog to handle (casting is handling) you need to follow a step-by program for retriever training. Everything you're attempting to do in a haphazard way as above is covered early on as retriever training basics. Also, releasing the dog for a mark on its name is SOP for retrievers. But you really should go with how the wheel already rolls for retriever training rather than trying to reinvent it. This http://www.totalretriever.com/index.php/articles/training-with-mike-lardy-volume-1 will give you everything you need - if you don't believe me, take a look at the right-hand margin of the webpage and see how the training progression jibes with what you're trying to do.

Good luck,

MG
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Re: Casting

Postby gundogguy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:05 am

crackerd wrote:
TurkeyDog wrote:So my dog is casting pretty well and steady to release for bumpers. I have a couple of questions though. I'm trying to incorporate the whistle to get him to stop mid retrieve and cast to another bumper. He's sitting fine on the whistle But when he's running the line, he's too excited to notice the whistle. How do you correct this? Also, I play traffic cop and release him to retrieve from that on his name. Now, when I stop him casting for bumpers, and try To send him on another cast, he stared at the bumper he was originally going to. If I say his name to get his attention, he assumes im releasing him to go after the original bumper. Sorry if that was confusing. I just wonder if his name was a bad release command?


Not a good idea. NOT a good idea - at all. If you're training the dog to handle (casting is handling) you need to follow a step-by program for retriever training. Everything you're attempting to do in a haphazard way as above is covered early on as retriever training basics. Also, releasing the dog for a mark on its name is SOP for retrievers. But you really should go with how the wheel already rolls for retriever training rather than trying to reinvent it. This http://www.totalretriever.com/index.php/articles/training-with-mike-lardy-volume-1 will give you everything you need - if you don't believe me, take a look at the right-hand margin of the webpage and see how the training progression jibes with what you're trying to do.

Good luck,

MG


Exactly!! MG
I am going to assume the OP is not a Pro. The problem with "inventing a new order of learning" because it fun or the order of events in a young retriever life are misunderstood, is that when the handler gets in trouble and the dog is totally confused it is hard to correct because no one really knows the system or track the dog and handler have been on.
By using Lardy or Graham retriever systems it is easy to stay on track and if you fall off the rails it is also easy to figure why and and make the adjustments needed.
Get a program and stick with it. As my UK friends say "Do what works"!
Hal
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Re: Casting

Postby TurkeyDog » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:52 am

Thanks. I'll look into the Larry book. I currently use several other books: Dokkens retriever books, and the wildrose way. Unfortunately neither really covers the stopping during a cast to redirect. I like the Hillman videos, but they're a little expensive for my budget.
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Re: Casting

Postby crackerd » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:20 am

TurkeyDog wrote:Thanks. I'll look into the Lardy book. I currently use several other books: Dokkens retriever books, and the wildrose way. Unfortunately neither really covers the stopping during a cast to redirect. I like the Hillman videos, but they're a little expensive for my budget.


Even if they did, they would be a pale comparison to what you could experience first-hand with a retriever training group. You've got tens if not hundreds of those throughout the land of retrievers (and Cheeseheads). Suggest you catch up to a retriever club or two, ask for help, and go along with the/a program. And use Mike Lardy's instructional book as a companion volume to real life training. Cannot emphasize this enough, especially if you are working on - and it sounds as if you are indeed - training your first retriever.

Again, good luck and be sure to post up your progress, since others here like gundogguy and gonehuntin' with tons of gundog experience each, can advise further. Polmaise here as well - he's got some pretty good ways of getting retrievers to do their work and enjoy doing it with you as a team, too.

MG
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Re: Casting

Postby naperdog » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:47 pm

Excuse my ignorance but why do you trains dogs to stop mid cast? I’m just a weekend upland hunter and just curious why you train this skill.
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Re: Casting

Postby crackerd » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:36 am

naperdog wrote:Excuse my ignorance but why do you trains dogs to stop mid cast? I’m just a weekend upland hunter and just curious why you train this skill.


For duck hunting, "why" would be if you were calling the dog off a mark to send it for another bird you or someone in the blind shot and which might be a cripple getting away. That would also require the kind of training that TurkeyDog's been advised to follow - for the element of control in getting the dog to respond to what you want it to do. This is where the step-by program as recommended above brings the dog's understanding - and your handling skills - to the advanced level.

For field trials and hunt tests, of which blind retrieves on land and water are an essential element, you would start this training as I described above, with force to pile and the double or single-T. These are handling drills, and merely stopping a dog on a cast as it's going pell-mell for a bird or bumper as performance retrievers do is an art form of handling in itself.

Hope this helps,

MG
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Re: Casting

Postby polmaise » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:12 pm

TurkeyDog wrote:So my dog is casting pretty well and steady to release for bumpers. I have a couple of questions though. I'm trying to incorporate the whistle to get him to stop mid retrieve and cast to another bumper. He's sitting fine on the whistle But when he's running the line, he's too excited to notice the whistle. How do you correct this? Also, I play traffic cop and release him to retrieve from that on his name. Now, when I stop him casting for bumpers, and try To send him on another cast, he stared at the bumper he was originally going to. If I say his name to get his attention, he assumes im releasing him to go after the original bumper. Sorry if that was confusing. I just wonder if his name was a bad release command?

Sounds like the dog is doing what's right ;) ..If the dogs spine and head and eye's are glued on 'it's' intended target and the release command is his name , then that's where he is gonna go !
The handler however, maybe ,just a little communicating to the dog like a human ? 'As in assuming ,by saying it's name it's gonna look at You ?

How far on in training is the dog ? , ''Casting pretty well'', like completed 'WW' ? 'T' and 'TT' , as mentioned by our learned colleague from my 'Hall of Fame' in Retriever Training ,hailing out of Snow Goose heaven with Roots in the deep south . (Don't blame the quarter-back) .

The thing about the 'Stop whistle' in Retriever handling is that the dog should always 'stop' for a Martini !! Any place any time any where.
Perhaps , and I'm just guessing a step too far ? ..(depending if the handler is absolutely following a sequential process) ..the caveat to confusion , is when a drill/exercise is beyond both at either end of the lead. You can inadvertently create a bigger problem than the solution you seek ?. ......A 'Pop' !!..

Follow the advice from the man and seek out first hand help with the many retriever groups to get you started and on the right track, and pick your program then stick to it :wink:
atb
Last edited by polmaise on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Casting

Postby TurkeyDog » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:35 pm

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into training groups in the area. Yes I am a first time retriever trainer. I'm not looking to do field trials or hunt test. I just want a good duck dog and one I can train to flush fall turkeys. My dog isn't quite 4 months old yet. The only casting I've introduced is the basic baseball from place board. He does that well, on/off lead. So by well I mean place, over with hand signals and back with hand signals. Not advanced. The boards are only ten feet apart, roughly. Im not doing any line work. He responds to the whistle: sit, here without fail. As I was tossing him bumpers and releasing him is when I started wondering about the stop on the whistle. The books I have don't cover it. I've begun putting him at sit and walking out in front of him, tossing the bumper, releasing on his name, then stopping him while he's coming toward me and releasing again. I asked about the release command because of bill hillmans method of releasing. He uses back. Anyway, he's starting to get it. I'm learning just as much as my dog at this point. I'll look into different literature (Lardy) on training and try To find other enthusiasts local in my area.
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