Retrieving

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TurkeyDog
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Retrieving

Post by TurkeyDog » Mon May 21, 2018 7:38 pm

First off, i am not a professional dog trainer. I am a hunter who wants a hunting dog... not a field trial dog. I have a 6 month old Boykin. He is steady, although he no longer likes bumpers but prefers dokken dead fowl brids. He cast with platforms, heels, works to the whistle etc. I am training him for fall turkey as well as waterfowl. He absolutely loves chasing turkey fans/wings, and scenting them out when i run lines for him. He is beginng to prefer the turkey(scent) game more than retrieving. He lags and will often stop retrieving during training. Is it possibly time to introduce an e collar? Again, Im no professional. I just need a little advice.

averageguy
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Re: Retrieving

Post by averageguy » Mon May 21, 2018 8:25 pm

I have never worked with a Boykin. There are a couple of retired Pro Retriever guys on this board, hopefully they will post.

It is not uncommon for some pups to have less interest in retrieving bumpers after birds are introduced. My current pup was that way. After I took him through a FF program his interest and drive for bumpers came up a bunch and he is now doing blind retrieves for bumpers going out and back as fast as he can go on land and water. Your pup will likely do the same.

I use ecollars in my training and have introduced them associated with recall around the age of your pup now. I then use the ecollar for many areas of training as the pup shows it is ready e.g. Steady to WSF, FF, Blind Retrieve Handling. Without seeing your pup I cannot give advice if he is ready or not. Other than trash breaking, all my training with an ecollar is at very low levels of stimulation. I train a command to the pup using positive training techniques and then overlay the ecollar at low levels teaching the puppy that swift compliance with the command turns off the stimulation.

Are you planning on using and following a specific Force Retrieve Training program? Smartfetch gets recommended alot. I used the Perfect Retrieve DVD for my current pup because the method best fit his temperament.

How many retrieves are you trying to do in a given session with this puppy? It is not uncommon for a puppy to get bored if too many repetitions are done in a row. At 6 months it is best to stop while the puppy is still bouncing around looking for you to throw it again.
Last edited by averageguy on Tue May 22, 2018 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Retrieving

Post by Sharon » Mon May 21, 2018 8:29 pm

I'm no expert on teaching retrieving, but from what I have read here, the e collar would not be a good idea for the problem you have. Obviously you want some kind of control in getting the dog to complete the retrieve. My understanding is that this is taught through the force fetch table steps. I'm sure the retriever experts will give you good help.

Google the "Smart Work Retriever Training Programme" by Evan Graham.
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gundogguy
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Re: Retrieving

Post by gundogguy » Tue May 22, 2018 4:09 am

TurkeyDog wrote:First off, i am not a professional dog trainer. I am a hunter who wants a hunting dog... not a field trial dog. I have a 6 month old Boykin. He is steady, although he no longer likes bumpers but prefers dokken dead fowl brids. He cast with platforms, heels, works to the whistle etc. I am training him for fall turkey as well as waterfowl. He absolutely loves chasing turkey fans/wings, and scenting them out when i run lines for him. He is beginng to prefer the turkey(scent) game more than retrieving. He lags and will often stop retrieving during training. Is it possibly time to introduce an e collar? Again, Im no professional. I just need a little advice.
If I take what you have written literally, you are fast approaching deep water with this pup and will be in over your head soon.
You really need Pro help here on a face to face basis. The order in which you are training is out of place, building the basic foundation of a working retriever is lacking cohesion.
Yard work, delivery on the retrieve and a solid response to the recall command is all that is needed at this time. The internet can open doors for people but it can not train dogs.
Best of luck with your pup.
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Re: Retrieving

Post by Trekmoor » Tue May 22, 2018 5:41 am

I'm not sure I have interpreted the O.P.'s post correctly but here is a possibly more "British" point of view on the subject of retrieving.
I don't use an e-collar (they are banned here) and I never do Force Fetch either so along with everyone else over here I have to develop the "natural retrieve."

It is very common for dogs , especially the hunting breeds like spaniels and the versatiles, to become so keen on hunting that they become a bit unwilling to retrieve . I use all sorts of training dummies (bucks) ....canvas ones, stuffed sock dummies, carpet roll dummies .....just about anything a pup can easily pick up and retrieve . I do not allow a pup to become fixated on any one kind of dummy.....very much including dummies with wings or rabbit skins attached. A pup should be encouraged to retrieve anything that is thrown for it.

If a pup begins to show me it prefers hunting to retrieving to the point where it may refuse to retrieve then I cease to hunt the pup for as long as it takes me to develop it's enthusiasm for retrieving again. Basically, if the pup is showing me that it wants to run around "doing things" then it only gets off the lead to do things in the form of retrieves !

This has always worked for me with cocker spaniels, springer spaniels, clumber spaniels and a few of the versatile breeds too. On a shooting day my dogs might have to retrieve several different kinds of game all in one day. That is, pheasants, partridges, snipe, woodcock , grouse and ducks ....not to mention rabbits and hares. A dog that is only interested in one or two kinds of game is of no use to me . Using many different kinds of dummies in varying sizes and weights and textures lays the foundations for the pups later work on game.

Many of the hunting breeds prefer hunting to retrieving , make sure you don't pander to those dogs preferences !

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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Re: Retrieving

Post by TurkeyDog » Tue May 22, 2018 6:37 am

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, i will not be able to send my dog to a pro trainer. I have a dead bird he loves to retrieve and he loves the bird bumpers. Ill try backing off the hunting as you stated Bill T. Ill probably also start looking into e collars. Boykins are sensitive dogs so im not sure how heck respond. As far as force breaking, he doesnt need pressure anymore to fetch from hand, hold, drop. He wont yet pick it up off the ground though. I do follow the dokken retrieving program and its worked well so far. Im sure my method of training is laughable to most on this forum. I only want a hunting dog, and i dont have to money to pay someone else to do it for me.

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Re: Retrieving

Post by Meller » Tue May 22, 2018 6:53 am

At 6 months old be sure that he has his permanent teeth not his puppy teeth, as this will effect his retrieving!

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Re: Retrieving

Post by cjhills » Tue May 22, 2018 7:23 am

TurkeyDog wrote:Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, i will not be able to send my dog to a pro trainer. I have a dead bird he loves to retrieve and he loves the bird bumpers. Ill try backing off the hunting as you stated Bill T. Ill probably also start looking into e collars. Boykins are sensitive dogs so im not sure how heck respond. As far as force breaking, he doesnt need pressure anymore to fetch from hand, hold, drop. He wont yet pick it up off the ground though. I do follow the dokken retrieving program and its worked well so far. Im sure my method of training is laughable to most on this forum. I only want a hunting dog, and i dont have to money to pay someone else to do it for me.
T dog:
Nothing is laughable that works.
In the conditioned retrieve most dogs have a issue with picking the object off of the ground. Some have a huge problem. I find if you find something he really likes to retrieve it makes it much easier to get him to pick it off the ground.
Dummy retrieving is boring to some dogs. Some dogs that do very well on dummies are not great on birds and vice versa. I am not a retriever trainer but I train hunting dogs to retrieve gently to hand every time.
Bill T on here is probably the best on training a hunting dog retrieve. A force retrieve can be a long and painful experience for the dog and you.It does teach discipline in the end put if you just want a dog to run out and find the bird you shoot and bring it back it probably is not worth it and you will probably quit before it is done.
I would back off the dummies retrieving, teach a very good recall, use a few fresh killed pigeons as quick as he picks up the bird call him in.
I don't know what a turkey dog does but I am not a fan of wings and other phony stuff. Live or warm birds keep the dogs interested. don't overdo it............Cj
Last edited by cjhills on Tue May 22, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

averageguy
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Re: Retrieving

Post by averageguy » Tue May 22, 2018 8:19 am

T dog,

Following on with the information in your second post and others. I develop natural/play retrieve in my puppies from a very early age and ride that horse as far as it takes me. I use narrow alleys constructed of snow fence along the wall of my machine shed with the end blocked off with straw to develop the straight out and straight back retrieve behavior I want. The puppy only has one way to go and that is out and back. I have the pup drag a light homemade check cord that I can get my foot on when needed, if the puppy wants to play keep away with the object vs returning with it. They all have done some of that as some stage as their independence grows. I am gentle, all praise no punishment. I tease the puppy with the object and toss it a short distance down the tunnel towards the blocked off end. At that stage the moving object/chase is what motivates them to go grab it. I then clap my hands and move away calling the puppy to come to me. If the puppy does not play the game right, I end it and try again the next day. I am only looking for 2-3 good reps and end before the puppy wants to stop. Some similarities to Bill T's post on the developing natural retrieve perhaps. And similar to gundogguy's point to do your work in the yard until it is correct before you attempt it in the field with much greater distractions.

Separate from working on the natural retrieve, I work on recall. A good recall is a key foundation of retrieving. It must be in place before much can be accomplished in open area retrieve training and you do not want to be working of both at the same time. Agains shades of gundogguy's posts on orderly steps to training.

Ecollar are excellent tools when used right. But other than trash breaking (chasing deer and coyotes is the primary issue with my GWPs), I do not use the ecollar for anything until I have already trained the dog to perform that task first without the ecollar, and it is reliably performing it.

It is never a matter of forcing the dog to do something it is not already doing first without the ecollar on. So it does not sound like you and your pup are ready for an ecollar relative to retrieving, but it will likely play a role down the line depending on what formal training program you choose to use.

I have never sent my dogs to a pro trainer. But I have utilized the expertise of pro trainers for decades. Inexpensive and relatively inexpensive methods available to all of us are:

YouTube is full of free materials.

Commercial DVDs I have a library of them. I just loaded up my SmartFetch and reviewed the menus. They are an Evan Graham product as Sharon also recommended. Excellent step by step program. The Foundation is obedience which is the same as gundogguy posted. I also have a series of Bill Hillman's stuff. He has a gentler form of training and might better suit your Boykin. I used Perfection Kennel's Perfect Retrieve DVD on my current dog as it also was a gentler method of FF and it worked very well for us.

I use digital cameras to take video of my training sessions and share them with trusted persons for their input. One such person is my current pup's breeder and perhaps that is an option for you. Some of the folks I tap frequent this forum and others, and they have provided me some excellent thoughts along the way via PMs, Emails, and telephone calls. You just have to feel folks out before you start accepting advice. Some of what I hear I use, some of it I don't. But there is always value in hearing it.

Numerous times over the long haul I have contacted Pro Trainers, introduced myself and what my training objective with my dog was. I respectfully asked if I could bring the dog to their location at a time of their choosing, and purchase some 1:1 consultation time on a specific training problem I am having or hoping to avoid. Every Pro Trainer I have approached in this manner has provided me the requested consult and it has always been very beneficial. Often very simple changes to what I was doing were quickly pointed out and moved my pup and I ahead. Other times is was simply me walking away with more confidence that I was on the right path.

I have also done some 2 to 4 day Clinics with Pro Trainers. They have been excellent always.

I am a member of several NAVHDA Chapters which conduct monthly training days as well as many members get together in smaller groups and train regularly through the Spring and Summer. It can be a bit of a minefield sorting through who is giving good advice and who is not, but very worth the while overall and very inexpensive. I have met some excellent dog folks through this channel.

Trying to give you some options to get some outside help which don't break the bank. Hope it is beneficial and Best of Luck with your pup.

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Re: Retrieving

Post by DonF » Tue May 22, 2018 8:58 am

I used to force but don't anymore, just don't like doing it if I don't have to. Starting out with a tennis ball. Something that the pup can chase. Important to be fun if you want him to retrieve. Two or three time's and put it away. Do it to much and the pup can sour on it. Become's work rather than fun. When it is having to much fun, switch to a bumper. I throw a bumper every two or three days and the dog like it, still having fun. Talked to a guyI know last night and he was telling me about dog he's working with that likes to chew on birds. He said he got it fixed with a shock collar. I din't recommend that while the dog has a bird in it's mouth! Think about it just a moment. The dog get's the bird in it's mouth, munch's down a bit and whamo! Shock. Now if you were a dog where do you think that shock might have come from? And you want him to put another bird in it's mouth? Huge problem here is that the dog went from bumper's right to dead birds. Should have first gone with frozen birds thawed 15 or 20 minutes and should have kept the session's short! The is not gonna chew on a frozen bird much, to hard but I suspect it still smells like a bird. Long session' get boring to a lot of dogs, quit while he's still interested, few good retrieves will beat a few good one's and a bunch of bad ones.
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Re: Retrieving

Post by TurkeyDog » Tue May 22, 2018 10:56 am

averageguy wrote:T dog,

Following on with the information in your second post and others. I develop natural/play retrieve in my puppies from a very early age and ride that horse as far as it takes me. I use narrow alleys constructed of snow fence along the wall of my machine shed with the end blocked off with straw to develop the straight out and straight back retrieve behavior I want. The puppy only has one way to go and that is out and back. I have the pup drag a light homemade check cord that I can get my foot on when needed, if the puppy wants to play keep away with the object vs returning with it. They all have done some of that as some stage as their independence grows. I am gentle, all praise no punishment. I tease the puppy with the object and toss it a short distance down the tunnel towards the blocked off end. At that stage the moving object/chase is what motivates them to go grab it. I then clap my hands and move away calling the puppy to come to me. If the puppy does not play the game right, I end it and try again the next day. I am only looking for 2-3 good reps and end before the puppy wants to stop. Some similarities to Bill T's post on the developing natural retrieve perhaps. And similar to gundogguy's point to do your work in the yard until it is correct before you attempt it in the field with much greater distractions.

Separate from working on the natural retrieve, I work on recall. A good recall is a key foundation of retrieving. It must be in place before much can be accomplished in open area retrieve training and you do not want to be working of both at the same time. Agains shades of gundogguy's posts on orderly steps to training.

Ecollar are excellent tools when used right. But other than trash breaking (chasing deer and coyotes is the primary issue with my GWPs), I do not use the ecollar for anything until I have already trained the dog to perform that task first without the ecollar, and it is reliably performing it.

It is never a matter of forcing the dog to do something it is not already doing first without the ecollar on. So it does not sound like you and your pup are ready for an ecollar relative to retrieving, but it will likely play a role down the line depending on what formal training program you choose to use.

I have never sent my dogs to a pro trainer. But I have utilized the expertise of pro trainers for decades. Inexpensive and relatively inexpensive methods available to all of us are:

YouTube is full of free materials.

Commercial DVDs I have a library of them. I just loaded up my SmartFetch and reviewed the menus. They are an Evan Graham product as Sharon also recommended. Excellent step by step program. The Foundation is obedience which is the same as gundogguy posted. I also have a series of Bill Hillman's stuff. He has a gentler form of training and might better suit your Boykin. I used Perfection Kennel's Perfect Retrieve DVD on my current dog as it also was a gentler method of FF and it worked very well for us.

I use digital cameras to take video of my training sessions and share them with trusted persons for their input. One such person is my current pup's breeder and perhaps that is an option for you. Some of the folks I tap frequent this forum and others, and they have provided me some excellent thoughts along the way via PMs, Emails, and telephone calls. You just have to feel folks out before you start accepting advice. Some of what I hear I use, some of it I don't. But there is always value in hearing it.

Numerous times over the long haul I have contacted Pro Trainers, introduced myself and what my training objective with my dog was. I respectfully asked if I could bring the dog to their location at a time of their choosing, and purchase some 1:1 consultation time on a specific training problem I am having or hoping to avoid. Every Pro Trainer I have approached in this manner has provided me the requested consult and it has always been very beneficial. Often very simple changes to what I was doing were quickly pointed out and moved my pup and I ahead. Other times is was simply me walking away with more confidence that I was on the right path.

I have also done some 2 to 4 day Clinics with Pro Trainers. They have been excellent always.

I am a member of several NAVHDA Chapters which conduct monthly training days as well as many members get together in smaller groups and train regularly through the Spring and Summer. It can be a bit of a minefield sorting through who is giving good advice and who is not, but very worth the while overall and very inexpensive. I have met some excellent dog folks through this channel.

Trying to give you some options to get some outside help which don't break the bank. Hope it is beneficial and Best of Luck with your pup.
Those are great tips. I appreciate everyones advice on this. Its my first dog I've trained, so it is a little daunting (combined with the fact that there isnt much information out there about training a dog to find and flush flocks of turkey). I am in fact training him for versatile work (duck & turkey) and im sure its similar to upland but they range farther and arent quartering fields. Since he was 8 weeks ive introduced him to tukey scent -feet, wings etc. He's obsessed with the turkey scent though. I have a fishing pole with a turkey fan tied to it I use to play with him. He chases it fanatically and scents it out when i run trailing lines. The dog will run into the garage and find the fishing pole and stare at it whinning and jumping after it, sometimes abandoning me during yardwork on retrieving to go find the fishing pole. It all bodes well for his nose in the fall turkey woods, but is distracting him during yardwork for waterfowl.

Again, its not that he wont retrieve. I take him to ponds and he eagerly swims out after the bird bumpers, its just at home in the yard hed rather play the turkey game and doesnt show much interest in plastic bumpers. The other day he got distracted at the pond and i went over to see what he was doing and he was messing with turkey feathers hed found where someone breasted a bird out in the field.

I dont want a field trial dog... just one that will deliver a downed duck to me and hunt turkey. I probably shouldve waited to train him for that and worked waterfowl exclusively at first. Live and learn i guess. Thank you all for your help. I appreciate any advice that is offered.

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Re: Retrieving

Post by crackerd » Tue May 22, 2018 1:11 pm

TurkeyDog wrote:First off, i am not a professional dog trainer. I am a hunter who wants a hunting dog... not a field trial dog. I have a 6 month old Boykin. He is steady, although he no longer likes bumpers but prefers dokken dead fowl brids. He cast with platforms, heels, works to the whistle etc. I am training him for fall turkey as well as waterfowl. He absolutely loves chasing turkey fans/wings, and scenting them out when i run lines for him. He is beginng to prefer the turkey(scent) game more than retrieving. He lags and will often stop retrieving during training. Is it possibly time to introduce an e collar? Again, Im no professional. I just need a little advice.
Here you go - Boykins don't run field trials, they run retriever (and spaniel) hunt tests. They are born to retrieve and the owner's needn't be a "professional dog trainer" or any kind of previous trainer for bringing that out in them. The turkey thing is almost instinctive, and that's why there is very little information to be found on Boykins busting up flocks then recalling into a burlap sack. (That and the fact that in many states dogs cannot be used for working turkey, ironically, that's true in the Boykin's home state of South Carolina.) In any event, they'll come into the hunting instincts naturally enough - you should be more concerned about your hunting dog for retrieving, because from your description you've jerry-rigged a training sequence that doesn't really compute for a Boykin. For example,
He is beginning to prefer the turkey(scent) game more than retrieving. He lags and will often stop retrieving during training. Is it possibly time to introduce an e collar?
In training retrievers or retrieving gundogs - the Boykin is both - the e-collar, as several have commented, is not meant to force dogs into doing what they aren't already doing - and doing enthusiastically. The e-collar has very specific usage in (and a program structured toward) training a retriever - and also used increasingly in training retrieving gundogs such as other spaniels and the continental (versatile) breeds.

I'll be curt but hopefully not discourteous here in saying regardless of what you want or don't want in a gundog, they don't train themselves. Corollary to that, when they don't get the right training, it all goes t*ts up as Trekmoor's tribe would put it. I would suggest you get to the nearest retriever trainer ASAP and talk about structuring your pup's training for retrieving and then practicing the turkeybuster tack afterward.

To put a finer point on this, heed what averageguy had to say:
Numerous times over the long haul I have contacted Pro Trainers, introduced myself and what my training objective with my dog was. I respectfully asked if I could bring the dog to their location at a time of their choosing, and purchase some 1:1 consultation time on a specific training problem I am having or hoping to avoid. Every Pro Trainer I have approached in this manner has provided me the requested consult and it has always been very beneficial. Often very simple changes to what I was doing were quickly pointed out and moved my pup and I ahead. Other times is was simply me walking away with more confidence that I was on the right path.
You also need to reread "gundogguy"s take on what's gone amiss for you - and is edging closer to going over the rocky shoals in having yourself an untrainable gundog. gundogguy probably has trained more spaniels and retrieving gundogs than any 10 of us in this thread; you can trust in his every syllable as applied to how training should proceed from a foundation - not from a standing start with a jet-pack pointed downward. You didn't say where you're located, but again there are folks like gundogguy and others such as described by averageguy to be found just about everywhere - often they may not be professionals, but have studied at the feet of pros or have a feel for training a gundog developed over their years of experience. Seek them out - to reiterate averageguy's advice, probably one in 1,000 would decline to meet with you for at least offering a helping hand in the beginning, even if at a nominal fee.

Good luck in so doing as encouraged and advised - and in progressing with your Boykin. From this vantage - and it's longstanding with the breed - there's no more fun gundog to train than the Boykin. You just have to invest the time to become a team and "feed" them the right training language. Note that I did not say "force feed" the training language but there's no reason force-based training cannae make for an even better-trained Boykin, as it does with a Lab, or with a golden, or any other retrieving gundog.

MG

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Re: Retrieving

Post by polmaise » Tue May 22, 2018 2:44 pm

Sounds like the little fella isn't having fun retrieving .
That's all down to the way that fun is conveyed by the op and received by the pup . (yes pup at 6 months ) . Hey' if it was fun ,it would do it all day !!
OP say's he can't go see a trainer , ok, go see someone that can show you how to play with the dog 'in retrieving' .
I'm with Gundogguy , pretty soon it's past asking advice ,better seeing a trainer now to put you on a path . That don't cost the earth ,but worth thousands if it works .

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Re: Retrieving

Post by Steve007 » Tue May 22, 2018 5:36 pm

Meller wrote:At 6 months old be sure that he has his permanent teeth not his puppy teeth, as this will effect his retrieving!
This is a good point . Teething starts at 4 months and continues until 7 or 8 months. Worth considering, along with a new tooth problem.

I personally wouldn't use an ecollar on a 6-month-old pup. And if he's doing everything you've mentioned with accuracy, you might be pushing him too hard. He's a pup. Try giving him a break from training.

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Re: Retrieving

Post by deseeker » Tue May 22, 2018 5:45 pm

Evan Graham has a good program on disk called Smart Fetch. It teaches force fetch in an understandable way. Ethan Pippitt (Shorthair pro) at Standing Stone Kennels has a bunch of videos on utube that show you the steps in force fetching a dog. Just make sure you do them in order and don't skip steps. On your search engine type in: utube standing stone kennels force fetch.

DON"T use the e-collar until the dog knows the command--E-collars aren't used to teach a command, it is for enforcing the command AFTER the dog already knows the command(an e-collar is a long distance check cord). Good luck :D

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Re: Retrieving

Post by MJB64 » Wed May 23, 2018 8:03 am

I am only working with my fourth dog, but it seems like you have tried to cram a lot of training into a six month old puppy. Slow down and have some fun with him.
"Endeavor to perservere."

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Re: Retrieving

Post by averageguy » Wed May 23, 2018 10:48 am

TD,

Check out this link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLOpxicwzZQ

I got much deeper into the use of clicker/marker words and treats while training my now 2 year old GWP. It is a very powerful tool for shaping behavior in young puppies at much younger age than traditional force approaches can be used. I think it might be a great fit for getting your puppy fired up about retrieving bumpers in the yard in the short run. There are videos on YouTube under Leerburg and otherwise that provide a great deal of excellent information.

I hunt a lot including waterfowl. I used clicker/treat training on this pup when training heel, down, introducing the dog field blind, getting him to enter and lie still in it, hold until sent for a retrieve, the same for his Avery Marsh Platform, same for the MoMarsh Invisablind, Same for the layout boat, kenneling into the crate in the back of the pickup, Force to Pile work ... I used it when I was training FF as well and it was very effective in keeping the dog's mental attitude up and willing to continue to work even as elements of training pressure were being applied.

And I used it this morning while addressing a problem where this dog does not like me handling his feet. He pulls away and moves his mouth towards my hand when I examine his feet particularly when there is a sand bur or thorn in his foot. I put him up on the training table and worked with him this morning. When he would turn his head away, I hit the clicker and gave him a treat. We made very rapid headway in just one session. This after several prior sessions of me smacking his head away when he turned it towards my hand. The carrot was better than the stick.

Positive methods are a very powerful shaping tool. I encourage you to look into them as I think a Spaniels temperament might well thrive on it.

On the Turkeys. All my GWPs have been ate up with wild turkeys from a baby on. When they encounter a turkey which is hiding/holding, they point them, when they hit the hot tracks of a feeding turkey or flock, they burn down it as fast as they can go and flush them at the end of the track, when I put an arrow through a gobbler and need some help they blood track them.

Your pup will do the same with as little of effort as taking it to the woods on a regular basis and providing it opportunities to run across turkeys and turkey scent.

The training you will need is a good recall to get your pup back quickly after it scatters a flock. I train my dogs to recall to the tone button on the ecollar so I can get them back to me silently. This approach would be really good for your turkey hunting so you can avoid using a whistle or worse a human voice.

And you will want a very well trained down/stay command so you can get the pup to lie still next to you while you call the scattered turkeys back. Clicker/Treat training goes very well with that too.

So some more thoughts for you to consider.
Last edited by averageguy on Wed May 23, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

TurkeyDog
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Re: Retrieving

Post by TurkeyDog » Wed May 23, 2018 11:40 am

Thank a lot averageguy. That is awesome infornation and i will look at those clicker videos. I still use treat training, so the addition of the clicker will help out. Thank you for the information.

averageguy
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Re: Retrieving

Post by averageguy » Wed May 23, 2018 11:54 am

TD, the advantage of the clicker is it is 100% consistent whereas our mood and voice inflection are not. But the clicker also ties up your hands whereas your voice is always free to use. So it is common for trainers to use a marker word vs a clicker. You will notice in many videos the trainer is using a Marker Word. This is a voice replacement for the clicker. I have used both and they both work. Lots of folks use the word YES. Does not matter what word you use, just that you use it consistently and do your best to use a consistent tone and volume. I used X with my pup as shorthand for Excellent, as well as X is not a word we use much in daily conversation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiMZENdefkM

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Re: Retrieving

Post by Steve007 » Wed May 23, 2018 12:51 pm

averageguy wrote:TD, the advantage of the clicker is it is 100% consistent whereas our mood and voice inflection are not. But the clicker also ties up your hands whereas your voice is always free to use. So it is common for trainers to use a marker word vs a clicker. You will notice in many videos the trainer is using a Marker Word. This is a voice replacement for the clicker. I have used both and they both work. Lots of folks use the word YES. Does not matter what word you use, just that you use it consistently and do your best to use a consistent tone and volume.
I use "yes". I always have my voice with me.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Retrieving

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu May 24, 2018 1:38 pm

I'm not sure I understand your post, but basically, you teach handling in the yard, not the field so there are no distractions. Every spaniel I ever trained went through a regular retrieve training program. Though I've never trained one, I LOVE Boykin's!
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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