Training Dilemma

[hunter474]

Hello,
I've been training my first bird dog, a French Brittany who just turned 2, on my own. The problem I've been having is she'll point woodcock pretty reliably, but grouse not so well. As soon as she gets on grouse scent she starts running faster and ultimately flushes the bird. Sometimes I feel like she flushes them on purpose. I've taught her to whoa and she's very good at it, but it's hard to do anything when she's 80-100 yards away in grouse cover. I'm trying to decide if i should catch some pigeons and use them for training or if I should just stick with wild birds. I live in Price County, WI, so getting her out on wild birds is not an issue. I think I missed 6 or 7 days of season last fall. Do you guys feel that just getting her constant exposure will work, like one day it will just click that she can't catch these birds and she'll start pointing? Or should I get some pigeons and try some work this summer?

I'm looking for any advice you guys have. My dad says I should send her to a trainer, but I think that's a bit excessive. She just turned 2, so she still has a lot to learn and has a lot of pup left in her.

[DonF]

Pigeon's and remote trap. I doubt your dog understands it's moving the bird, grouse can be tuff! Training on wild birds will work eventually I suspect, Training on pigeons will train much faster! With the pigeon and remote traps, you can launch as soon as the dog makes game! You can't do that with a wild bird, with them you take what you can get, they just don't always co-operate very well! I have never hunted woodcock. How close do they let your dog get before they flush? Could be they let the dog get closer than the grouse and they taught the dog to get close, to close for a grouse!

[birddogger2]

Pigeon's and remote trap. I doubt your dog understands it's moving the bird, grouse can be tuff! Training on wild birds will work eventually I suspect, Training on pigeons will train much faster! With the pigeon and remote traps, you can launch as soon as the dog makes game! You can't do that with a wild bird, with them you take what you can get, they just don't always co-operate very well! I have never hunted woodcock. How close do they let your dog get before they flush? Could be they let the dog get closer than the grouse and they taught the dog to get close, to close for a grouse!

I second what DonF said.

What I do is set up the trap so that the scent from the bird is flowing, fairly uniformly, in one direction, say, for example... west to east. then I will bring the dog into the scent cone from north or south...perpendicular and downwind of the trap.

THE INSTANT the dog lets me know it has entered the scent cone, I pop the trap. My finger is on the button when the dog gets anywhere near the scent cone. The dog will turn its head, head toward the trap, hesitate, raise or lower its nose...something...when it enters the scent cone. Most often it will veer toward the trap. Since I know precisely where the trap is, I can watch for and see the tiniest tell.
This is called "stop on first scent" and is pretty much how I believe one should train a dog for grouse...especially grouse that have been hunted and/or pressured.

Another thing one can do to "heighten a dog's objectivity" is to do stop to flush drills , again with the release trap. Basically you pop the trap when the dog is hunting in the general area and will see the bird "flush wild". The dog should stand and not chase. It should watch the flight of the bird and stand there until released by the handler. A low level nick, or two or three(If it keeps moving) with the collar if it starts after the bird is usually how I proceed.

The last thing I will mention is that we all know that training on wild birds should not be done during nesting season.

However, one can do pigeons in traps anytime.

RayG