crazy twisting dog

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BuckeyeSteve
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crazy twisting dog

Post by BuckeyeSteve » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:56 am

This is probably going to be one of the dumbest questions ever posted....but it's an issue.

This isn't hunt training related, it's a general dog issue. Every night I take the e-collar off the dog. When I go to put it on in the morning, the dog is excited to come out of the kennel, has to pee, and is a general ball of energy. As I try to get the collar on, he is twisting and chewing and jumping on me and turning circles....and generally being impossible to get that buckle pin in the right circle and tuck away the remainder of the collar. I generally end up pinning him to the ground and wrestling the collar on...and generally he pee's on me while I do it.

I can wait later to put the collar on and take him out first, but that results in my not being consistent with the e-collar...and he'll still do the same thing when I try to put it on, minus the peeing.

The issue is not that he hates the e-collar...he does the same thing if it's his regular collar or his F&T collar. He just thinks it's play and wrestle time when I try to put something on his neck.

He does sit, but not reliably (I at first was trying to not teach sit...so we started this late)... and even when he does sit it doesn't result in being still when I start messing with a collar on his neck.

How do I teach him to be still and let me put collars on?

welsh
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crazy twisting dog

Post by welsh » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:21 am

BuckeyeSteve wrote:He does sit, but not reliably....
<Yoda voice>
The answer in the question found is.
</Yoda voice>

To teach the dog to be still while you put the collar on, first teach him to be still.

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shags
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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by shags » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:45 am

He does it because he can.

You aren't being strong enough leadership-wise and the dog knows this is a game between the two of you.

If your yard is fenced so he can go out and do his morning business without the collar, let him do his thing and put the collar on when he comes back in. That would be the easy way but it wouldn't help the dog to control his behavior.

It sounds like you could benefit from the Smiths' Silent Command System, which works well with hyper dogs. And it teaches owners to be calm too. Check out their website. I learned from Rick to put the dog on a chain gang. Approach him. Say nothing. If he wiggles, barks and jumps etc. back away. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat until the dog stands quietly, then strap on the collar or lead or cc. No stand still, no collar, no nothing. This takes a lot of time and a lot of patience, so it should be done when you have the time. Not only does the dog teach himself to calm down, you learn to stay calm within yourself, and quiet. A lot of people use way too many words and their dogs ignore them.

If I were you I'd get some of this basic training done before moving on to birdwork. Your pup needs to respect you as his leader and it sounds to me like he doesn't. He should view you as his amiable boss, not his littermate.

Allowing your dog to teach himself self-control will help him all through his life. Think about vet visits, field first aid, being out in public, and just being a great family companion.

If your morning routine is his only silly time, you can literally rattle his cage and give him a stern Knock It Off! and don't open the crate until he settles. You'll most likely be cleaning pee the first time or two, but you're doing that anyway. And if you get it right, it will only take once or twice.

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Sharon
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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by Sharon » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:52 pm

You re being too nice. :) Get tough with that dog. :)
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JONOV
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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by JONOV » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:37 pm

He's a pup, isn't he?

I'd personally leash him to potty, make him sit, then put the ecollar on, then let him run around. It seems a leash would be easier to snap on than an e-collar.

Easier to control him on a leash.

And, work on teaching "Wait" or "stay." Get to where you command it in the kennel, reach in and snap it on, then heel him out.

Or consider that discretion is the better part of valor. Let him out to pee without giving any instructions.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:50 am

If you're putting a collar on him, he should know whoa. Enough said.
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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by birddogger2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:33 pm

My guys are each in a kennel.

They learn...at a very early age that they have to stand still at the kennel door...or it does not open.

They also learn, at a very early age... that if they attempt to bolt though the doorway before being released, that they get a face full of metal gate.

Make your dog stand there and wait to go through any doorway. EVERY TIME. If it does not...slam the door in its face. It will get the idea very quickly...I promise. That is just good manners and it keeps everyone safe...including the dog. Ask for nothing more... accept nothing less.

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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by DonF » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:18 am

Different way' of handling it I'd think. What I would do is show up with the collar and make no effort of anykind till he settles down. then when you reach down with the collar, he start' again, you stop and go back to the beginning. He does it more than two or three time's, get out of the kennel and let him think about it for awhile then start over. How long it takes him to settle down depend's on how long you've been letting away with it. What you are looking at is pure excitement.
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marysburg
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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by marysburg » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:51 pm

Shags and Don F have it right. And remember what Rick Smith always says, "It takes as long as it takes." If you pick a time when you are not in a hurry, you can wait for calmness in your dog. Rick taught us that when you go to take the dog off the chain gang, if he doesn"t stand still, you just take a step back and wait for the dog to be still. You could step forward and back a zillion times if need be, but the dog figures it out in a hurry and does what he needs to do to get the ecollar on and get off the chain gang. Be patient, and it will work the same way for getting out of the kennel.

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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by isonychia » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:23 am

I have been following most of your posts. I think you are going through what a lot of us went through on our first bird dog. Maybe you chose one of the litter's real hard dogs, thinking you wanted the best hunting dog of the bunch (they all ended up the same by this point though), now you are wondering what the heck kind of creature is this, nobody you meet gets it, your friend's don't understand. Nobody gets why you might opt for leaving your dog at home when going to a small dinner party, or why their house isn't "puppy safe." Your time on leash is a constant struggle, your time off leash is a constant worry, you can't even get the leash on!

My first Brittany was a complete knucklehead. I won that battle, but I am pretty sure he resents me for it. I basically get no love from that dog but he hunts like a champ and is a joy around other people. It can be tough to break through a knucklehead but if I have one piece of advice it is this; Try the slow way, the one birddogger2 mentioned where he sits and is calm before coming out of the kennel, try the slow way every time there is a slow path. IF that does not work, then you try the hard way. Punishment for non compliance of known and expected behavior is swift and has 2 levels, one which is softer reminder of your position and the other is the vision of Jesus. This isn't to be confused with loosing your temper, no screaming, no anger on your part, quick concise correction. This depends on the temperament of your dog, and honestly I like the collar for this purpose because the dog doesn't experience the emotional end of it. The idea here is that, if you wan't to play hard - you will learn instantly that no, you don't. Do not nag your dog constantly, tell him this way is the only way. He will resent you for nagging, respect you for showing him the light - without question. This will likely work for all things except maybe putting his collar on, and maybe pulling on the leash :mrgreen:

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Re: crazy twisting dog

Post by averageguy » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:49 am

Whether all puppies in a litter turn out the same (they often do not), is irrelevant at this stage as your objective is to train the puppy in front of you.

I train my puppies Whoa, Sit, Down and many other things using Marker/Treat PR methods at a young age. I expand and re-enforce their compliance with these trained commands in many situations around the house and yard first, and then expand to other higher distractions over time as we progress. (I do not use a lot of control while in the field until they show they are bold and searching well as an important related side comment, but control around the house and yard begins early and often.) I will Whoa my puppies when walking through a doorway, while on the tailgate before being released to go on a run, when I set their food down... Getting them out of the kennel is just another situation where Whoa still means Whoa. People who do not use Marker/Treat PR based training methods have great difficulty understanding and believing how much OB can be accomplished with very little pressure at a very young age but the results are amazing and available to all.

Similar to other posts, when I go to get the pup out of the kennel I require them to Whoa or Sit while I open the kennel door. I am ready to block any attempt to bolt. With a pup that is more likely to break I will use Sit as it anchors the pup more than the Whoa does in that situation. If the pup does not comply with a command it knows well I calmly walk away from the door or close it if the pup breaks when it opens, and walk away. If it complies, I place the collar on the dog, and release it to go air, then I call it back to me and we go about our morning training/exercise routine. Having worked the command in other situations routinely they catch on very quickly that the command also applies in this situation no matter how bad they want to break and run.

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