Pup & Wild Birds

[Mainiac]

I've been a lurker on this site for a while, finally got the nerve up to post a question. I got my first GSP about 6 months ago, she is doing great with everything I've taught her (sit, stay,come.ect). Everyday after work I take her for a walk in the woods behind the house (I swear she has a smile on her face the whole time), anyhow I've found this little patch of woods that's holding a couple of grouse. For the past 3 or 4 days she's fushed those grouse and not known it. She never picked up the scent or seen them take off.(the last couple times the wind has been in our favor). I walk over to where the birds were and call her over. She sniffs around and starts going crazy, and points at where the birds were nested.
Any suggestions on how I can get her to atleast flush and chase? She has been introduced to birds (quail), she's briefly pointed, flushed and chased.
Sorry for the long post.

[Wagonmaster]

Yes, just keep doing what you are doing. It may require the happenstance of her coming upon a grouse or two on her own. Intro to birds does not automatically result in a bird finding machine in every case, especially where the ruffed grouse are concerned. They are escape artists, the buggers.

If she is getting excited about the roosts, she has already taken steps in the right direction.

Progress may be slow right now anyway, you are dealing with older, cagey birds. If you keep getting her into birds, she will be ready when the young of the year let her walk up on them next fall.

[Chaingang]

Have worked her on many birds? or hunted her ? I am by no means a pro trainer or anything, but most times it's just a numbers game. Bird dogs need lots of birds. Usually with lots of exposure they start pointing and the light switch eventually comes on.

[Mainiac]

She has not had much bird exposure. I bought a half dozen quail about 1 month ago. between the ones that escaped and the couple she caught (weren't very good flyers) I used them all up on one Saturday. She's been out hunting acouple of times in late Dec. with her mother, but she thought is was play time and chased her mom around most of the day until she was worn out. I don't put any pressure on her at all on our walks. I just tell her to "go on" when she is too close and "hup" when I change direction. The only time I call her in is to show her the grouse tracks. She listens well, and stays out in front. I try to keep my mouth shut. I know she is smart enought to firgure it out. I will keep going out and finding the birds for her. (we have a little bit of snow on the ground)
Thanks!

[Chaingang]

You mentioned taking her out with her mother. Probably best for a while to run her alone if you haven't been already. This will alow her to gain some independence, and figure things out for herself. You see it often when running a pup with an older dog, they end up following the older one around depending on them for everything that happens. If your going to use pen raised birds again, try chukars as they are better flyers. Good luck with her.

[birdogg42]

You dont have to use all your birds up in one session. Spread them out over a couple days. She is still very young just keep showing her birds it will happen. Just be patient.

[gonehuntin']

Just a couple of things: You don't want her to flush and chase grouse; she's a pointing breed. Grouse are the toughest bird you can train a dog on; expect a lot of failure. Don't let her catch planted or liberated birds she's supposed to be pointing. If you want her to chase birds, keep her on a check cord, wait until she points, then you flush or throw the bird and let her chase. If she catches that one, it's ok. It's like a cripple in the field. You teach her all of her basics, the birds will teach her the rest.

[Mainiac]

I quess my thought on the flush and chase was that she would eventually realize that she'll never catch and start pointing on her own. Yes the grouse up here are very skidish, I don't expect alot of success. That was my bad on her catching the planted birds, I dizzied them too much and they would not fly. It's not quite as easy as they discribe it in the books, but we're having fun!!! I'm going to invest in a launcher when the training gets more serious this summer.
Thanks for help,
Pete

[Devils Creek]

Just a couple of things: You don't want her to flush and chase grouse; she's a pointing breed. Grouse are the toughest bird you can train a dog on; expect a lot of failure. Don't let her catch planted or liberated birds she's supposed to be pointing. If you want her to chase birds, keep her on a check cord, wait until she points, then you flush or throw the bird and let her chase. If she catches that one, it's ok. It's like a cripple in the field. You teach her all of her basics, the birds will teach her the rest.

Sorry, gotta call ya on this one...

Mainiac, you are correct in your assumptions. The fact that your dog is picking up the scent and pointing after the fact shows us the light is burning, though maybe dimly at this point.

Keep exposing your dog to wild birds till she gets it. And she will get it. Now she will likely break and chase for a while, but that's all right. She will eventually figure out on her own how close she can get.

The only way to make a grouse dog is lots of exposure to wild birds.

The birds will teacher her the basics....then you teach her the rest.



My son Steve with Tex and a double limit of ruffies

[Yawallac]

Devil's Creek,

Now that's a BIRD DOG!!

[Devils Creek]

Thank you Yawallac...

I've been droolin' over a couple in your kennel too.

[gonehuntin']

Mainiac, you are correct in your assumptions. The fact that your dog is picking up the scent and pointing after the fact shows us the light is burning, though maybe dimly at this point.

Keep exposing your dog to wild birds till she gets it. And she will get it. Now she will likely break and chase for a while, but that's all right. She will eventually figure out on her own how close she can get.

The only way to make a grouse dog is lots of exposure to wild birds.

The birds will teacher her the basics....then you teach her the rest.

Yup! That's one honey of a dog. The thing with a grouse dog is, you have to be where there is grouse. Where you guys are that's fine. Where Mainiac is, maybe not so fine. It's easier to start her in the yard so she knows what pointing a bird is, then progress to the field. My points was that the poster said "he wanted her to flush and chase grouse". I agree with you 100% that the wild birds will teach the dog. It just takes a loooong time if you don't have access to many birds. Hence, using the planted birds. Once you get a launcher Mainiac, it'll make things a lot easier.

[Mainiac]

Thanks for the tips! gonehuntin, you are correct about the availability of wild grouse. Depending on how wet and cold our spring is greatly affects the grouse population. Some years it's really thin. This year however our spring was dry and mild and there seemed to be alot of birds. Which worked out great for my pup. I haven't seen the grouse behind my house on the last couple times out. I'm going to try a different spot this afternoon.
What do you guys do about your pup sniffing deer tracks? Do you say "no" or just ignor?

[Devils Creek]

Thanks for the tips! gonehuntin, you are correct about the availability of wild grouse. Depending on how wet and cold our spring is greatly affects the grouse population. Some years it's really thin. This year however our spring was dry and mild and there seemed to be alot of birds. Which worked out great for my pup. I haven't seen the grouse behind my house on the last couple times out. I'm going to try a different spot this afternoon.
What do you guys do about your pup sniffing deer tracks? Do you say "no" or just ignor?

Well we do have boom and bust years as well. I remember some years when you couldn't "buy" a bird. Fortunately this wasn't one of them.

I do use manual launchers, and remote launchers, and a back-off jack. Having said that, every dog has different issues. I've had pointers that would NOT point planted birds, any species. And I've had dogs that would point an old leather glove. I once rode my horse for half a mile to call off a dog that was backing an old white stove that somebody had dumped off in a pasture. I have a sign at the corner of my road with a full sized silhouette of a pointer, and I had one old dog that would back it every time he saw it....for YEARS.

If your dog is showing a strong tendency to point, I wouldn't hesitate to use up some pigeons. If he's creeping and not pointing, a remote launcher will often cure that. If he takes one step after he's scented the bird, pop the bird up. That might trigger the pointing instinct.

Now this might be blasphemy around here but I'll tell you I've done a bit of outside training, and I've had 2 yr old dogs that have NEVER pointed. Sometimes I'll get them to point a quail wing on a fishing rod (just until they've pointed once, to trigger the pointing instinct, cause it is SIGHT pointing) and then put them back on trapped birds with success.

If you're still not having success finding wild birds, I'd be real tempted to spend some dollars at a preserve, and do it a couple of times. I think that can be a real good long time investment.

[x Bred Pointer]

Mainiac,

The woodcock will be back in our neck of the woods by the end of March. Try to find a covert nearby and run your pup on woodcock. The pup will get the hang of it in no time.

What part of Maine are you in?

[gonehuntin']

What do you guys do about your pup sniffing deer tracks? Do you say "no" or just ignor?

I hunt where there is a ton of deer and I handle it like this. All of my dogs are e-collar dogs and fully broken to them. When a pup's a pup, I don't make a big deal of it. When they're actually in the woods, I love to catch them running a deer and simply hold the button of the collar down on about a 4 low intensity without saying a word. As soon as he breaks off the chase I release the button, never having said a word. Same with rabbits or porkies. If you have access to a deer farm near you, you can do it there if the owner lets you. Just walk him past the pen on lead and if he sniffs the deer, hold the button down until he will walk by without paying any attention or even avoiding the pen. Don't be in a hurry to start this. Next hunting season will be soon enough. Remember, you may also be teaching him to track this summer and you don't want to discourage him from sniffing tracks.

[Mainiac]

What part of Maine are you in?

Central Maine

Yeah, I can't wait to hit the wookcock migration!!!! They seem to "stay put" longer than the grouse.

We found those grouse yesterday afternoon but it was perched up in a tree and took off with the pup not knowing it was there.

All of my dogs are e-collar dogs .

I'm having a hard time convincing the wife about the ecollar because the pup listens so good. Lately I've been on the fence about it as well. My pup is only 6months old still young for an ecollar?

[Yawallac]

The woodcock will be back in our neck of the woods by the end of March.

That's amazing. They just came through here in late January heading south. They must get to where they are going and then immediately turn around and head back. I would assume that your Maine birds are some of the same birds that we see here in SC. We have a few that winter here but the bulk of the flight continue south. It's pretty interesting.

[x Bred Pointer]

The woodcock are usually back in New Brunswick in good numbers by the first week of April and that's a great time to do some wild bird training before the nesting begins in May. I was always told most of the native NB/Maine birds wintered in Louisiana but don't know for sure.

[x Bred Pointer]

Yawallac,

Your Sarah looks a lot like my Shea. She is 9 mos old in this picture.