Gun Dog Forum

I bought an Acme silent dog whistle. It came with a "how to train your dog with the ACME Silent Dog Whistle" instruction booklet. The booklet gives an overview of verbal commands, but only mentions using the whistle for the heel command ("use one blast of the whistle"). Does anyone primarily use a whistle instead of verbal commands, or use one as a mix with verbal?

I'd like to start overlaying whistle with my verbal. Could anyone give me a list of how you overlay commands (one long blast for "come", one short blast for "look at me", three short blasts for "do a double backflip while snagging a grouse out of mid-air", etc.)?

There isn't any rule about whistle commands, except maybe don't use them too much when you're with another dog and handler.

You can choose whichever matchup of blasts and commands seem natural to you. My own thing is to make the whistle do what my voice would do...I wouldn't scream "Heel" so my whistle wouldn't either, but I would scream "STOP!!" so that's what I make the whistle say. Not that I use a whistle that much any more, as well'trained and in sync with me as my dogs are
Haha. For real though, in my game, lots of people use Acme Thunderers, and it's totally annoying when the other handler is blasting away a sound that means one thing to his dog and another thing to mine. So I rely more on voice recognition, except the rare times when me and my dog get separated and conditions make it more likely for him to near a whistle than my voice (I'm not blessed with pipes).

Anyway, to overlay, I just do whistle, verbal, whistle until such time as the dog seems to know that the verbal follows the whistle command, and obeys on the first whistle. Sometimes it's whistle, verbal, whistle, ecollar. It doesn't take long.

I have to ask, how do you know what the range of a silent whistle is in different conditions, like heavy cover or high winds? I've never tried one because of that.

My dogs all think they are called "Peep - peep !" I very seldom use a dogs name at distance. My spaniels , lab and versatile dogs are taught to respond to a stop/sit whistle, taught to recall or to turn to whistle and in the case of the verstiles I use a distinctive whistle that means "go hunt" when these dogs are at a distance.

Basically I use my voice if a dog is near me and my whistle if a dog is a distance away. I don't like shouting out commands.
I use only one kind of whistle an Acme 211 1/2 for all commands as these whistles can be "tongued" to produce a variety of whistle "peeps." That is not so easily done with the so called silent whistles although I have tried to use them many times I gave up on them because they are not "versatile" enough for me and because they are heavy to hold in the mouth. Also, unless a plastic mouthpiece of some kind is fitted to metal silent whistles they can just about remove the skin from your lips in really cold weather !

There is no one way or number of peeps to blow for any of the various commands. Just be sure not to get "whistle happy" and confuse a pup with far too many "peeps !" I use one peep for stop and two peeps for turn and a repetition of the two peeps for recall.

Bill T.

shags wrote:
I have to ask, how do you know what the range of a silent whistle is in different conditions, like heavy cover or high winds? I've never tried one because of that.

Thanks as always for the insight Shags... much appreciated. On the "how far" subject, I don't know what test or study some good scientists did at some point, but I'm taking the articles I've read at their word that the higher pitch, the further they can hear it. On an adjustable silent whistle, they say to use the highest pitch (our ears can't hear at all) for working a dog further away. The whistle claims 2 miles "in the right condition" (which I assume is a near silent day on flatland, downwind).... but in the end i'm sure you can't have any idea what distance the dog will hear it. Same with voice though.... how far can they hear me yelling, or with an e-collar.... how much do wind and trees and hills affect that distance? Actually...I'm guessing that it's not the dog's ears picking up the whistle that has been tested, but probably they are going off the standard that sound at higher pitches carries further than sound at lower pitches. I'm a pretty loud yeller....though I'd rather never have to yell....but I figure on my best day in calm weather on flat ground you could only hear my voice for a couple hundred yards, maybe?

Trekmoor wrote: My dogs all think they are called "Peep - peep !" I very seldom use a dogs name at distance. My spaniels , lab and versatile dogs are taught to respond to a stop/sit whistle, taught to recall or to turn to whistle and in the case of the verstiles I use a distinctive whistle that means "go hunt" when these dogs are at a distance.

Basically I use my voice if a dog is near me and my whistle if a dog is a distance away. I don't like shouting out commands.
I use only one kind of whistle an Acme 211 1/2 for all commands as these whistles can be "tongued" to produce a variety of whistle "peeps." That is not so easily done with the so called silent whistles although I have tried to use them many times I gave up on them because they are not "versatile" enough for me and because they are heavy to hold in the mouth. Also, unless a plastic mouthpiece of some kind is fitted to metal silent whistles they can just about remove the skin from your lips in really cold weather !

There is no one way or number of peeps to blow for any of the various commands. Just be sure not to get "whistle happy" and confuse a pup with far too many "peeps !" I use one peep for stop and two peeps for turn and a repetition of the two peeps for recall.

Bill T.

Bill... can you expand on this for me? What is the need for tounging the sound? If you are using one peep for stop, 2 for turn (is that a general turn any other direction than what they're going, or to look at you for a point?), and a series of 2's for recall......what is the tounging of the whistle accomplishing? Also...when doing a series of 2's for recall, isn't that like calling "come" over and over.... or do you only do it a few times and stop when they're out of sight?

Do you use the whistle for any other commands, or just those 3? Also...Is the one whistle "stop" synonymous with "whoa", or is there some difference to those two commands (I haven't taught whoa yet, and I'm new to this...but I understand the two to be synonymous)?

Thanks!

I am not real familiar with how 'whistle commands' are used with upland game. I have always had Golden Retrievers and as you probably know, gun dogs retrievers almost always are whistle trained for all field commands. If you watch any 'herding' dogs work, they too are trained almost exclusively to obey whistle commands.

I only offer this as support that dogs in general can be trained to follow whistle commands, generally not "silent' whistles as it seems they would not carry far enough for working retrievers or herding dogs. This is my opinion as I have no source to suppor this comment.

Acme silent dog whistle. Anybody actually ever heard one work? Had a friend with one years ago and don't know if his dog ignored it or just wasn't trained!

DonF wrote:Acme silent dog whistle. Anybody actually ever heard one work? Had a friend with one years ago and don't know if his dog ignored it or just wasn't trained!

Yes !
I use the acme silent whistle for the spaniels (It is not silent) btw , it has a quieter ,less carrying tone than any others and you can still hear it if you are tuned in to a high ptch. They are also "variable" in pitch by the screw thread on the mouthpiece.
"Horses for Courses" .. I do not use one for the retrievers or HPR s as they are rightly more than 50 yards away before any handling of a stop or turn or direction is required .
Most Hunting with the flushing spaniel for game to be shot is less likely to be woken up by the sound of Casey Jones " and anyway ....try standing next to a Handler in competition while judging one or even a dozen of them Spaniels whose Handler is bellowing out sounds like the "Sound of Music"

I would rather hear the sound of Dean Martin with "My rifle ,my pony and me"
As Bill indicated earlier , You can use "Tongue" , to change even the 210 1/2 ..or 211 1/2 acme to produce a variation of pitches or tones ..But then not every one uses their Tongue in the same way .. One of the most difficult things to demonstrate in text on the internet forum I would have thought (outside the porn industry) . So, if someone doesn't know how to use one of any pitch or doesn't know the difference or why . Perhaps they should give them all a Blow .

Yup, tongueing a dog whistle is an art form ! Not all whistles can be tongued successfully and I.M.O. the so called silent whistles make tongueing very difficult. The problem I find with silent whistles and with the big Thunderer types that contain a pea or cork ball is that the mouth holes size makes tongueing more difficult. Those whistles like/need to have a definite, certain amount of air blown into them to work properly. If they do not get it then they either don't work at all or just do not sound "right."

When my dogs, the spaniels in particular, are hunting or retrieving fairly close to me then I reduce the amount of air I blow into the 211 1/2 and that results in the same sound frequency but at a lower sound level ….one less likely to annoy other hunters or to alert game ….or field trial judges !

Over the last 50 years I have tried just about every kind of whistle I could either buy or make myself. I have made staghorn, metal, plastic , wooden and bone whistles. The last whistle I made was one formed from a fox's leg bone . It works just fine but I still prefer the good old plastic, 211 1/2. I buy and keep several of them. I keep one on my key chain, one in my car and a couple hang from pegs in the house. If I sell a dog I've trained I maybe sell the dog cheap …...but I make it up with the amount I charge for the whistle off my peg !

My advice is to buy just one type of whistle and stick to it ! Doing that avoids confusing the dog and yourself. Try not to fall into the trap of carrying and using two different whistles . Many folk I've noticed do this do it because they are too lazy to sort out their dogs when they fail to respond to that very first "peep" on the whistle. They then repeat that whistle and when it still does not make the dog respond they begin to blow on "Gabriels Horn" …….. a muckle, great big Thunderer ! After a while their dogs will also fail to respond to it's hellish noise so the handler is no better off than if he'd used just one whistle .
Insist your dog responds to that very first "Peep" and you will have far fewer problems.

I am often confused by the American use of the word "Whoa's!" meaning. Maybe the dogs are too ? I never use that word to stop any dog in it's tracks.... I just blow the stop/sit whistle. My confusion is mainly concerned with the way I often see on u-tube of trainers saying "Whoa!" repeatedly while approaching a pointing dog , I think it is meant to keep the dog on point but I'm not sure.
I never do that or anything like it . If a pointing dog wants to move in on birds then I let it …..and the birds fly away and that teaches the dog not to get too close !

Britain and America/Canada do things a bit differently when it comes to working pointing dogs. I just stick to what I know works for me .

Bill T.

But then .........
There is the Trekmoor (Patent pending) Whistle ..which is an Acme sawn in half and superglued together with the front part filled with Whisky . !
Now that makes a merry tune .

Errrrr yes ! I'd forgotten you saw that whistle ! It is the only whistle I ever made that worked by sucking rather than blowing !


Bill T.

Trekmoor said

I am often confused by the American use of the word "Whoa's!" meaning. Maybe the dogs are too ? I never use that word to stop any dog in it's tracks.... I just blow the stop/sit whistle. My confusion is mainly concerned with the way I often see on u-tube of trainers saying "Whoa!" repeatedly while approaching a pointing dog , I think it is meant to keep the dog on point but I'm not sure.
I never do that or anything like it . If a pointing dog wants to move in on birds then I let it …..and the birds fly away and that teaches the dog not to get too close !

Whoa generally means 'stop and do.not.move.a.muscle'. I think that may be more true in competition than in personal hunting dog circumstances. IME hunters who don't also compete are somewhat more relaxed about some commands to varying degrees, than is necessary in trials, tests, and such. I'm lazy, and do not wish to correct or reinforce a sloppy response to 'whoa' so I train 'wait' which means (to me and my dogs) 'stand kinda sorta still, it's ok to wag or have happy feet, just don't go taking more than a step or two' . I use wait for going thru doors, for setting down food pans, for remounting after finds at trials, while getting myself situated on the atv, etc.

I think continued cautioning with 'whoa' indicates either nervousness on the handler's part, or lack of confidence in the dog.
IME the ones who 'whoa' 'whoa' 'whoa' are likely to hack their dogs also "Hey, get over here!" "Toby leave it!" "Dammit Toby!"
and on and on.

Which can be a giant disadvantage with whistles. Imagine being afield with someone who toots, peeps, and blasts his day away, while you try to keep your own dog from obeying a bunch of inadvertant 'commands' from that guy's random whistling.

I have a particular whistle sequence used to keep in touch with my dogs and to keep them moving forward at trials. Once I was braced with a fella who quickly picked up on it, and when my dog went on point, this guy decided to keep his dog moving with that exact same sequence. Wow, some coincidence! LOL. Unfortunately for him, and good for Team Shags, that the trick didn't have the intended outcome. So although I still have my whistle on a lanyard around my neck, it's mostly silent unless I need it to communicate with my dog at great distance, or when the wind is against vocal commands.

shags wrote:I'm lazy, and do not wish to correct or reinforce a sloppy response to 'whoa' so I train 'wait' which means (to me and my dogs) 'stand kinda sorta still, it's ok to wag or have happy feet, just don't go taking more than a step or two' . I use wait for going thru doors, for setting down food pans, for remounting after finds at trials, while getting myself situated on the atv, etc.

I think continued cautioning with 'whoa' indicates either nervousness on the handler's part, or lack of confidence in the dog.
IME the ones who 'whoa' 'whoa' 'whoa' are likely to hack their dogs also "Hey, get over here!" "Toby leave it!" "Dammit Toby!"
and on and on.

Which can be a giant disadvantage with whistles. Imagine being afield with someone who toots, peeps, and blasts his day away, while you try to keep your own dog from obeying a bunch of inadvertant 'commands' from that guy's random whistling.

I have a particular whistle sequence used to keep in touch with my dogs and to keep them moving forward at trials. Once I was braced with a fella who quickly picked up on it, and when my dog went on point, this guy decided to keep his dog moving with that exact same sequence. Wow, some coincidence! LOL. Unfortunately for him, and good for Team Shags, that the trick didn't have the intended outcome. So although I still have my whistle on a lanyard around my neck, it's mostly silent unless I need it to communicate with my dog at great distance, or when the wind is against vocal commands.

Yea , Team Shags learned to .....?
Now You have a nice day . Leave the whistle round your neck and have a cold beer.

Beer? No.

Bourbon. Yes!

Although I have quite often seen dogs become confused when two or more men have been using the same whistle this hasn't often happened to me. It did happen to me during a novice spaniel test though. My "running mate" as we sometimes call the other competitor hunting his dog at the same time and same stretch of land in tests or trials, was blowing for his dog to turn , he was blowing one "peep," but my spaniel pup had been taught to sit /stop for one peep...… I did not win that test !

This confusion on the part of my dog was mainly caused by my habit of training and working spaniels or the versatile breeds on my own . My dog had no experience of working alongside a running mate.

In contrast to that I work among at least 6 other folk and their dogs when I go "picking-up" ….. a British thing done at big driven shoots.
The other handlers there are often blowing stop or recall whistles and my dogs learn by experience to ignore any whistle not given by me. Every trainer has their own way of blowing a whistle and dogs come to recognise that individual "style" after a while and tend to respond only to it ….if they are going to respond at all !

During "Picking-up" there can be 10 or more dogs all running around, often in sight of each other, while trying to find fallen birds ….it can get a wee bit exciting at times to put it mildly !

Bill T.

I never use a whistle with my upland bird dogs. Inevitably, folk end up over-handling and I can still hear their whistle at the end of the day - sometimes into the next day!
Not sure why you need a whistle for upland hunting with a trained bird dog anyway but.....
That said, where can I order a case of the Trekmoor special whistles? Oh, and can I please see the selection of internal parts? After all, "It's what's inside that counts!"
Shags, great post about over-handling and about competing with unscrupulous bracemates. Yet another reason why I never used a whistle even when I trialed.

My most often used "internal part" with this type of "sook and no blaw" whistle is Glenmorangie whisky. ---- Hic !

Bill T.

I will not argue with any of you on your discussion of the use of WHOA but I do think that youy all may be missing the most common reason and that is nothing more than a habit that allows them to feel in closer contact with their dog. In other words a nervous habit that got started when the dog was young and they used the WHOA to keep the pup somewhat steady.

Just my observation over the years
Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:I will not argue with any of you on your discussion of the use of WHOA but I do think that youy all may be missing the most common reason and that is nothing more than a habit that allows them to feel in closer contact with their dog. In other words a nervous habit that got started when the dog was young and they used the WHOA to keep the pup somewhat steady.

Just my observation over the years
Ezzy

Some use a Barrel ? :roll: . lol ..love it Ezzy.
Here was me in a cave in Scotland under a mountain range watching a Spider trying over and over to climb his own little summit .
Electricity has been supplied since however as we are in the 21st century.
I always thought it derived from American Western films with John Wayne ? ..He always said "Whoa" while pulling on the reins . I am pretty darn sure if he pulled on the reins the horse would still stop ,without a single word being said ?. Perhaps the viewers required additional information to what was actually seen ?

polmaise wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:I will not argue with any of you on your discussion of the use of WHOA but I do think that youy all may be missing the most common reason and that is nothing more than a habit that allows them to feel in closer contact with their dog. In other words a nervous habit that got started when the dog was young and they used the WHOA to keep the pup somewhat steady.

Just my observation over the years
Ezzy

Some use a Barrel ? :roll: . lol ..love it Ezzy.
Here was me in a cave in Scotland under a mountain range watching a Spider trying over and over to climb his own little summit .
Electricity has been supplied since however as we are in the 21st century.
I always thought it derived from American Western films with John Wayne ? ..He always said "Whoa" while pulling on the reins . I am pretty darn sure if he pulled on the reins the horse would still stop ,without a single word being said ?. Perhaps the viewers required additional information to what was actually seen ?

or maybe JW used the word "whoa" as an expression of amazement when the horse actually stopped when he pulled up on the reins...

I have in the past stated that I do not use "Whoa". I must confess. I have in fact used it on RARE occasion. It went something like this:
- Zeus (see avatar) had a find WAY out in the wheat stubble field,
- I hustled the 400 yards to get to him,
- I was about 10 yards past Zeus when a covey of Huns flushed about 30 yards still ahead,
- I struggled to pick just one then fumbled with the safety,
- I squeezed off a round with no success, then fired the second round and a bird went down!?!
In utter amazement, I said, "Whooooaaaa!!!"
OK....in fact, I do say "whoa" but only when I hit the target, which is rarely.

I very seldom use a whistle once my dogs are trained. I overlay the ecollar tone for recall and use it, instead of a whistle. When I do use a whistle I want one I can hear vs a silent whistle, so I have no doubt as to whether the dog can also hear it and I can make any necessary corrections accordingly.

I use a two side whistle with one end pealess and the other with a pea. Two short blasts on the pea end is Come, one long blast on the pealess end is Whoa. I seldom whoa the dog in the field once it is trained but I use Whoa to stop the dog and give it a hand signal relative to blind retrieve handling. My use of a trained Whoa command is predominately when teaching the dog steadiness to WSF after its first hunting season.

Verbal and visual markers are training tools .
Some tend to use them after the training has been learned by the dog .........as a crutch for the handlers insecurity in the training of the dog .
The Best and most accomplished team of handler and dog would be the seamless accomplishment of the task without commands or correction .
....

With my past gun dogs I layered over the whistle for two things only--for turning in the field, and for recall back to me. Teach them first, then layer over the e-collar and the whistle. I hate hollering at dogs in the field and always thought the whistle carried further than my voice. Handy to let them know they are straying towards posted ground are you are changing directions.

I used two whistles, the one without a pea for turning and the one with a pea for recall. Two short blasts for turning and one long trill for recall. Worked pretty well, and of course the objective was to not have to use them much at all. I don't know how far away they can hear them but I know it's further than I can yell and they carried through the wind on the prairie a bit too.

Polmaise, that is well said re "whoa".
If you like a whistle, you should use a whistle. The terrain we hunt in this great continent provides for a significant variance in habitat. Hunting the prairies is at the opposite spectrum of hunting the east coast. Perhaps a whistle or verbals are something you require. For me, I train young dogs that it is their responsibility to work with me as a team. And, we do in fact hunt prairies, desert and dense grouse/woodcock terrain every year. I'm hunting birds, not dogs.
"Run" has often been the detriment in the aspiration of many an American bird hunter (this coming from a horseback field trialer). Run has too often come at the price of hunt. That's when the whistles/verbals come into play. That's also when success on wild birds is compromised.
I believe both whoa and whistles are a handler's choice rather than a performance requirement.
Silence, in-of-itself, IS an indicator/marker. It can convey control, confidence and leadership to dogs. Now yer talkin' dawg language!