Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

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Windyhills
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Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Windyhills » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:26 pm

Just curious if there's a standard protocol people use.

We just took in a middle aged GSP rescue from a program I was fairly impressed by. I think because some of their dogs are surrendered because they "won't hunt" they make no guarantees and probably don't want to evaluate for folks that are interested in a companion who can be trained to hunt. IMO a lot of these dogs have it in them with patience and training-seems a shame to not see what they might have in innate ability.

FWIW our rescue dog went from having great recall and not wanting to leave us to being highly interested in all the critters and smells around our place, strong point on some of the furred critters and very distant birds, retrieves pretty well. No hurry and need to see how he reacts to some birds but I wasn't sure what we had the first few days and just a couple of days later I think we can work with him.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Featherfinder » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:40 am

I think a dog becomes a product of his/her environment, good or bad. Hopefully, your dog's marbles weren't too messed up earlier on?
Given time, patience and the right experiences, you might be surprised what you end up with. I'd start by not thinking of him as a rescue but more of a training challenge for yourself. Develop a structured training plan that starts in bits and bites. The structured plan conveys confident leadership and dogs will not follow lost leaders.
Watch the dog for indicators. You may or may not see recurring issues that might have been ingrained from his previous experiences. Note these indicators then challenge yourself with a couple of fresh approaches to the same milestone. This dog could in fact make you a better dog owner/trainer!
Embrace the challenge. It can be VERY rewarding!

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by isonychia » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:30 am

Hunting dog podcast did an episode with a guy from NC who only uses rescues anymore and has had a very good history of positive results. You might try to find that podcast episode

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Robbw » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:23 pm

Some of the rescue programs won't even talk to you if you say you want a dog to hunt. Others are more liberal and understand that you are just trying to get the dog to be all that it can be. So I would imagine broaching the topic with the particular rescue you deal with could be a deal breaker.

As far as evaluating, I think someone with good experience evaluating dog behavior generally will know if the dog shows enough confidence to be able to handle the pressure of hunting. Then it's just a matter of exposing the dog to birds to see if the prey drive is there. I'd be lousy at that because I'd adopt them all! LOL But I was lucky with my first rescue because she turned out to clearly be an experienced hunting dog that was bred a couple of times and then ended up in rescue. Was she hard headed? yes. Did she run way too big for the Northeast? yes. Was her recall a little questionable? yes. Was she a wild demon of energy who drove me nuts until I could train her on an e collar and allow her to run off leash every day? yup. So you either have to be very choosy, or set some basic ground rules and then take what you get and work to get what you want.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:07 pm

Never. I always want a GREAT dog, not marginal or mediocre. You would have to be amazingly lucky to come up with a great dog in a rescue program. Life is too short to put up with them.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by BuckeyeSteve » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:53 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Never. I always want a GREAT dog, not marginal or mediocre. You would have to be amazingly lucky to come up with a great dog in a rescue program. Life is too short to put up with them.
One of the guys on Bird Dog Wars ONLY uses rescue dogs, and he has multiple champions. I don't believe (going from memory) that he's ever had one not work out at least pretty well (not all champs, but no non-competition dogs). I hear a lot of people talk about only using great pedigree dogs....and to be fair I drove 12 hours to pick up my pup for fear of my inabilities keeping me from training an unproven bloodline dog.... but I believe good trainers can probably do WAY better with any rescue dog than I can with a rockstar pedigreed pup. I love to see people work with dogs that haven't been appreciated by someone else. I think the dogs deserve a good life just as much as the next, and I'd bet that a TON of these rescue dogs have good hunting (or competition) bloodlines and get thrown back because some inexperienced a-hole like me buys them and expects magic....without understanding the amount of work it takes. IMHO.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:53 pm

I've never heard of bird dog wars. What format does the guy run in? Must be very informal because only papered dog's can compete in trials.
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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Meller » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:44 pm

Bird Dog Challenge lets Grade dogs compete in their trials.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:33 am

They also run some of the poorest trained dog's you'll ever see. I watched a few of those when it was "Bird Dog Challenge" and was disgusted by the dog work and the venue. Never watched again.
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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by averageguy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:36 am

I cannot bring myself to watch BDC. Run walking to birds, screaming at dogs, jerking birds out their mouth, pen raised birds which do not fly being chased around small fields. It is no measure of a dog or its handler.

A person's goals in owning a hunting dog will play a big role in how well a rescue dog might work out for them. I expect it could work out well for a lot of folks.

I like the odds/predictability of a getting a puppy from a purposeful line of dogs and shaping it from the day it arrives at 9 weeks. I can develop such a puppy to perform in all the areas important to me at a very early age, nurturing good habits and avoiding the bad. So probably not the road I would go down, but I am glad others do and think it often works out well for both dog and handler.

As far as protocol, I think evaluating the dogs mental stability would be the number one thing I would test. With people, other dogs, the world in general. Most all hunting breeds of dogs with a sound temperament can be developed into a decent or better performing hunting partner. Which satisfies the vast majority of folks who live with their dogs far more than they hunt with them.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Windyhills » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:07 am

Robbw wrote:Some of the rescue programs won't even talk to you if you say you want a dog to hunt. Others are more liberal and understand that you are just trying to get the dog to be all that it can be. So I would imagine broaching the topic with the particular rescue you deal with could be a deal breaker.

As far as evaluating, I think someone with good experience evaluating dog behavior generally will know if the dog shows enough confidence to be able to handle the pressure of hunting. Then it's just a matter of exposing the dog to birds to see if the prey drive is there. I'd be lousy at that because I'd adopt them all! LOL But I was lucky with my first rescue because she turned out to clearly be an experienced hunting dog that was bred a couple of times and then ended up in rescue. Was she hard headed? yes. Did she run way too big for the Northeast? yes. Was her recall a little questionable? yes. Was she a wild demon of energy who drove me nuts until I could train her on an e collar and allow her to run off leash every day? yup. So you either have to be very choosy, or set some basic ground rules and then take what you get and work to get what you want.
The rescue org I dealt with deals with field breeds only, and IMO had a great outlook--no problems with hunting, they just want to make sure they don't adopt a dog out to someone who expects it as they can't control the situation or the adequacy of the training it gets and don't want to get the dog back--priority it to find a good home.

Part of my point in posting this was that I think at first glance most would say our new dog is a sweet pet but don't count on him as a hunter. First few days I would have said that myself. But we see more and more out of him all the time and there's some clear potential. As an example, he'll play fetch with dummies all day long. First few days though if it went into some brush or woods he'd stop at the edge and not go in. Wow--Washout, most would say. Nope, I just threw them near the edge just inside some cover--where he could see them and would ease in to grab the dummies--and then further into the cover over a few times, and In just a few days he's diving in and busting brush.

I do intend to take it slow and won't expect a big running dog with a lot of independence--but am just fine with that. Needs a different mindset in training, and I am kind of enjoying it. Wild lands are less and less conducive to working a big running dog anymore anyway, at least around here with the loss of so much grassland on the prairies and wolves and traps in the woods.....

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by DonF » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:58 am

Guard Rail was on the verge of being a rescue but the guy that had him saw something and took a chance. The rest is history. I took in a rescue dog for a friend thing and flushing dog's that was 10 or 11 hos old at the time and afraid of it's own shadow. Turned into an amazing bird finder, retriever and bold as could be. I believe that the pointing dog's and probably retrieving and flushing dog's are born with it in them. You simply need a way to bring it out. Few years ago a guy brought over a GSP that he'd been given by a bird preserve. They told him it wouldn't make a hunting dog because it had to much bird drive and would take birds out. Took maybe 15 or 20 min to have that dog pointing and she turned into his best dog. Years ago a guy I knew in Bend, Ore got a GSP from the pound and somehow got paper's on it. I guess you could call it a rescue. One of the winning est trial dog's in Central Ore! Even his early teen daughter had handled it to wins in gun dog competition, a rescue fld ch. I would not worry about what might not be there but rather find what was bred into it.
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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Steve007 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:27 am

Robbw wrote:Some of the rescue programs won't even talk to you if you say you want a dog to hunt. Others are more liberal and understand that you are just trying to get the dog to be all that it can be. So I would imagine broaching the topic with the particular rescue you deal with could be a deal breaker.
This is unfortunately correct in many instances. Anyone wishing to take a chance on a rescue dog for hunting had best broach this subject very carefully until he determines the attitude of the specific organization. And if indicated, fib. Many rescue people -- not all, of course -- are softheaded do-gooders with no brains. Again, not all.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by Sharon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:09 pm

averageguy wrote:I cannot bring myself to watch BDC. Run walking to birds, screaming at dogs, jerking birds out their mouth, pen raised birds which do not fly being chased around small fields. It is no measure of a dog or its handler.

A person's goals in owning a hunting dog will play a big role in how well a rescue dog might work out for them. I expect it could work out well for a lot of folks.

I like the odds/predictability of a getting a puppy from a purposeful line of dogs and shaping it from the day it arrives at 9 weeks. I can develop such a puppy to perform in all the areas important to me at a very early age, nurturing good habits and avoiding the bad. So probably not the road I would go down, but I am glad others do and think it often works out well for both dog and handler.

As far as protocol, I think evaluating the dogs mental stability would be the number one thing I would test. With people, other dogs, the world in general. Most all hunting breeds of dogs with a sound temperament can be developed into a decent or better performing hunting partner. Which satisfies the vast majority of folks who live with their dogs far more than they hunt with them.
Very good point. As you know I rescue Jack Russells ; how well they do definitely depends on their mental stability.
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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by BuckeyeSteve » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:47 am

gonehuntin' wrote:I've never heard of bird dog wars. What format does the guy run in? Must be very informal because only papered dog's can compete in trials.
Bird Dog Wars is a show based on the Bird Dog Challenge organization. I would say the organization and the show are accurately and negatively described below. Fun to watch, probably not the best display of good dog training.

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Re: Anyone evaluate dogs in rescue programs for hunting ability?

Post by shags » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:19 am

OP,

Check out http://www.illinoisbirddogrescue.org

IDK exactly where they are, but maybe they have someone reasonably close to you. Not only do they rescue birddogs, it looks like they actively encourage hunting/testing/trial activities. Look at their "Who We Are" section on the website.

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