Gun Dog Forum

I hope this hasnt been overly discussed already.
Seems simple enough,anyone use it?
I agree with retrieve means chaseing,so the steadiness factor is desireable.
Can one not gain the same thing by by steadying the dog at a released and shot bird which is returned to the dog?

If you are asking if anyone used the magic brush pile that what's his name has the video of, no I have never used it and know of no one else that has either. My reason is that there is nothing new or magic about it and I am not going to build a big pile of brush that does nothing more than the methods most of us use.

Ezzy

I've used my own version- brushed out, 3' tall wire fence with 3 launchers inside. I don't know about the "magic", but, I found it useful for keeping my dog steady as I flushed another bird whenever she took a step (no shot) without being released. In my opinion, it's something you only should do 2 or 3 times over a month. Otherwise, a smart dog will recognize it's a setup and you'll lose intensity.

YMMV

ezzy333 wrote:If you are asking if anyone used the magic brush pile that what's his name has the video of, no I have never used it and know of no one else that has either. My reason is that there is nothing new or magic about it and I am not going to build a big pile of brush that does nothing more than the methods most of us use.

Ezzy

Really? What's his name? Higgins. a pretty good trainer and contributer to the forum

Seems little rude for a moderator......Cj

cjhills wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:If you are asking if anyone used the magic brush pile that what's his name has the video of, no I have never used it and know of no one else that has either. My reason is that there is nothing new or magic about it and I am not going to build a big pile of brush that does nothing more than the methods most of us use.

Ezzy

Really? What's his name? Higgins. a pretty good trainer and contributer to the forum

Seems little rude for a moderator......Cj

Thank you. His name jut escaped me at the time. Funny how that happens more and more as I get older.

Ezzy

Yes...I have had success with it. You need to follow Mr. Higgins directions regarding his approach. If you get creative, you can end up in a mess - not unlike a number of processes.

weimdogman wrote: I agree with retrieve means chaseing,

I dont .

weimdogman wrote: I agree with retrieve means chaseing,so the steadiness factor is desireable.

I don't believe that is correct. Chasing shows the dog may or may not have an interest in retrieving. There are a pile of dogs that chase and when they catch, won't pick it up. To RETRIEVE a dog has to chase, pick up the bird and return to you with it.

Is that the same as "I dont" ?
Best "I dont" .I ever had was Nipper ! ..Jack Russel of the highest order !
I shot a Crow on a warm summer day ,High in the sky ... It fell with one wing good .(It was high btw ) . About 100 yards out it fell on flat grass park. Out wee Nipper went almost before the Crow landed and just after the Safety was taken off on the gun .
He went out with such Gusto it was a sight to see !!
Upon locating the Crow ,he sniffed it , muffled it , It was dead on impact !
He lifted his leg and pissed on it ! ..He came right back and sat by my chair .
He was a great wee dog . I miss him dearly .

Yup!!!!!

polmaise wrote:Is that the same as "I dont" ?
Best "I dont" .I ever had was Nipper ! ..Jack Russel of the highest order !
I shot a Crow on a warm summer day ,High in the sky ... It fell with one wing good .(It was high btw ) . About 100 yards out it fell on flat grass park. Out wee Nipper went almost before the Crow landed and just after the Safety was taken off on the gun .
He went out with such Gusto it was a sight to see !!
Upon locating the Crow ,he sniffed it , muffled it , It was dead on impact !
He lifted his leg and pissed on it ! ..He came right back and sat by my chair .
He was a great wee dog . I miss him dearly .

Yup. That's a Jack Russell. This is my 4th now and I just think they are a real fun / challenging dog.

So my first post and I cant believe a moderator has to approve the post and then a moderator posts the rude comments?
Another member posts his version of a knock knock joke?

Does it get any better?

weimdogman wrote:So my first post and I cant believe a moderator has to approve the post and then a moderator posts the rude comments?
Another member posts his version of a Scottish knock knock joke?

Does it get any better?

Oh yea! We even have new members making comments about other members. Sorry you found it rude to answer your original post when I couldn't come up with the Higgins name. What would you suggest in a case like that, maybe just not try to help you out? That is not how we try to operate on this forum.

Ezzy

wiemdogman -

First...welcome to the forum.

Higgins has his own way of doing things, it seems, including little twists and tweaks of other methods. That is fine with me. I looked at using his "launchers" and decided that was not the best choice for me and my situation.

If I want to work on steadiness, I carry a bird bag, with extra birds, or, in a pinch...use my hat. The only time I use multiple launchers in close proximity is when I am working on backing with a backing dummy.
If I want to proof a dog that is on point, I flush until I am convinced the dog won't move on it's own and then pop the trap and shoot. THEN, I flush some more, sneak a bird(preferably a pigeon) out of the bird bag and, while flushing, flip the bird up and away, and shoot. Often, after the first bird is gone, I will go to the dog and style it up again and resume the second flushing attempt. I want the dog to be "at attention" until I give the dog the release command or physically remove him from the area.

Since I am the one with the second or third bird, and they are NOT on the ground... there is much less of a possibility for the dog to stick their nose into a trap and mess up. Even if they break...there is nothing on the ground, right there to get them in trouble.

Just something to think about. Multiple birds on the ground are more than multiple opportunities to treain. They ar multiple opportunities for the dog to get into trouble. Especially for a young, inexperienced dog.

RayG

weimdogman wrote:prime bow strings I hope this hasnt been overly discussed already.
Seems simple enough,anyone use it?
I agree with retrieve means chaseing,so the steadiness factor is desireable.
Can one not gain the same thing by by steadying the dog at a released and shot bird which is returned to the dog?

I hate to be this person but what is a magic brush pile?

Pretty sure a lot of people set up multiple birds to fly to help steady a dog and train for covey finds, on the ground scented, stop to flush, even on top of a barrel. Don’t really know where the magic comes in to play.

AnthonyRoss wrote:

weimdogman wrote:prime bow strings I hope this hasnt been overly discussed already.
Seems simple enough,anyone use it?
I agree with retrieve means chaseing,so the steadiness factor is desireable.
Can one not gain the same thing by by steadying the dog at a released and shot bird which is returned to the dog?

I hate to be this person but what is a magic brush pile?

It's simply a pile of brush that conceals multiple launchers or releasers containing training birds. It's major benefit (IMHO) is helping teach the dog to stay steady until the handler releases him.

Brad of Higgins Gundogs is a big proponent of the brush pile, He doesn't whoa train in a conventional manner, rather like the Gibbons-West method, the bird flying away let's the dog know he needs remain steady until released, if he's to get feathers in his mouth

weimdogman wrote:So my first post and I cant believe a moderator has to approve the post and then a moderator posts the rude comments?
Another member posts his version of a knock knock joke?

Does it get any better?

Welcome to the forum! So yes, your first few posts need to be approved. In the world of online bots and trolls, I think that's A-Okay. A couple tips to survive the internet... 1. Try not to assume the "tone" used when reading. It's very hard to pick up on those non-verbal cues when, well, there are no non-verbal cues. 2. You can silence, hide, whatever it is called on this forum, people you don't care to read from. You say " knock knock joke" so I assume it is...... I silenced him long ago because I wasted too much time trying to decipher the cryptic messages with little substance (IMO).

Finally, use the search function a lot. There is incredible amount of information that has been covered in this forum already and it's amazing how repetitive it gets. It will save you some time.

mnaj_springer wrote:

weimdogman wrote:So my first post and I cant believe a moderator has to approve the post and then a moderator posts the rude comments?
Another member posts his version of a knock knock joke?

Does it get any better?

...................................................................... 2. You can silence, hide, whatever it is called on this forum, people you don't care to read from.........................................

..........................

THis is a useful feature . It can save someone from high blood pressure or losing it and saying nasty things that need to be edited.
To use this feature:
Click on control panel" in the top toolbar line.

Click on "friends and foes" in the next tool bar line.

Click on Manage "friends or manage foes" in the side bar choices.

Also a good tool for making sure you don't miss any of the threads /posts written by members whose opinion you value.

Sharon wrote: It can save someone from high blood pressure or losing it and saying nasty things that need to be edited.
To use this feature:
Click on control panel" in the top toolbar line.

Click on "friends and foes" in the next tool bar line.

Click on Manage "friends or manage foes" in the side bar choices.

Also a good tool for making sure you don't miss any of the threads /posts written by members whose opinion you value.

Great advice from Admin BTW !
Well done .
Personally I have never used this valuable tool .

Neither have I. We tend to get what we give where personal comments are concerned. Things escalate from there as I know only too well. It is far too easy to make an enemy , not so easy to make a friend.

Bill T.

Have you used the Magic Brush Pile .Bill ?

Personally, I prefer the "magic bush" I always plant birds by a larger bush in light cover. Why? it teaches the dog to run to objectives, not blindly hunt. I may have one, two or three launchers at a bush. You can teach steadiness in the yard, but running to objectives can ONLY be taught in the field.

polmaise wrote:Have you used the Magic Brush Pile .Bill ?

Nope, I've never needed to use it and I don't have the pigeons for one anyway. I'd have thought that if the brush pile was used just a little bit too often, any intelligent dog would begin to point the brush pile by sight and not neccessarily the pigeons by scent ??? I've always managed to train pointing dog pups by using the leftover birds on estates at the end of the shooting season or by hunting them for grouse, doing grouse counts, just prior to the grouse shooting season. My usual hunting grounds were just any stretch of public land that pheasants managed to breed in the wild on. The birds on those places were few and far between and so were the points but the pups then learned to pull out a bit more in an effort to find a bird.


I never found any need to shoot the birds my pups hunted for and pointed, the pups got their reward from simply finding them and I added in the shot and the retrieve later. It isn't actually necessary to let a pup catch or retrieve birds in order to have a hard hunting pup that points and holds the points....and is steady to flush.

Bill T.

Trekmoor wrote:

polmaise wrote:Have you used the Magic Brush Pile .Bill ?

Nope, I've never needed to use it and I don't have the pigeons for one anyway. I'd have thought that if the brush pile was used just a little bit too often, any intelligent dog would begin to point the brush pile by sight and not neccessarily the pigeons by scent ??? I've always managed to train pointing dog pups by using the leftover birds on estates at the end of the shooting season or by hunting them for grouse, doing grouse counts, just prior to the grouse shooting season. My usual hunting grounds were just any stretch of public land that pheasants managed to breed in the wild on. The birds on those places were few and far between and so were the points but the pups then learned to pull out a bit more in an effort to find a bird.


I never found any need to shoot the birds my pups hunted for and pointed, the pups got their reward from simply finding them and I added in the shot and the retrieve later. It isn't actually necessary to let a pup catch or retrieve birds in order to have a hard hunting pup that points and holds the points....and is steady to flush.

Bill T.

Are You saying that the great Higgins and crew are wasting their time and it really is just another way of showing what a pointing does anyway ?...but it looks like you are training them in a unique way ? ... You could call this method .. The Wullie way" ? ...

I found a brushpile once when the dogs and me got too far from the truck when it was minus 20 F. I set it on fire and we warmed up nicely. That was pretty magical. wish I would have had some marshmallows ……...Cj

cjhills wrote:I found a brushpile once when the dogs and me got too far from the truck when it was minus 20 F. I set it on fire and we warmed up nicely. That was pretty magical. wish I would have had some marshmallows ……...Cj

Ahhhhhhhh.......the infamous "Burning Bush"!

polmaise wrote:

Are You saying that the great Higgins and crew are wasting their time and it really is just another way of showing what a pointing does anyway ?...but it looks like you are training them in a unique way ? ... You could call this method .. The Wullie way" ? ...

Of course I could call "my way" the "Wullie way" ......but I'd still only be doing what other people with somewhat limited resources do too. I have never claimed the way I train pointing dogs to be anything unique . I just do what works and avoid doing what does not.

Mr. Higgins is trying to market his "method" because he is a business man as well as a dog trainer. It's just another way of marketing a product that anyone could make .

Bill T.