"soft" points
- BuckeyeSteve
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:09 am
- Location: Valencia, PA (north of Pgh)
"soft" points
I don't know the correct terminology...but my dog is doing something I'll call "soft points". When we get in the field, he'll point a brush pile that he found a bird in a last time out (a week earlier or so). He won't hold it long...then he'll nose in and look around (heavily, motivated looking). He'll also "soft point" when he winds a bird in the area, but it won't necessarily be right at the bird. He may be 40 yards away and smell the bird. He'll point, then break 15 seconds later, move around, point again, break, point...then eventually he'll get close to the bird (10 feet or so) and lock up hard. At that point, he doesn't move until I get there to "flush" the bird from the launcher.
I've got no bird hunting experience over dogs. This is my first go at it, so I've literally never seen another dog in the field. Is this normal, or is it something he'll get better at (he's only been on 5 or 6 birds so far).
How far back should the dog point, and if he points 60 feet away but is looking in the right area....should that be his final point? Should I stake him right there and go flush the bird myself, or should I let him keep working until he gets close and gets a hard locked up point?
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I've got no bird hunting experience over dogs. This is my first go at it, so I've literally never seen another dog in the field. Is this normal, or is it something he'll get better at (he's only been on 5 or 6 birds so far).
How far back should the dog point, and if he points 60 feet away but is looking in the right area....should that be his final point? Should I stake him right there and go flush the bird myself, or should I let him keep working until he gets close and gets a hard locked up point?
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Re: "soft" points
assuming you're not interfering with the dog's ability to decide when the scent is strong enough to make a firm point then you should let the dog decide. There's a lot that goes into the dog making a point - how strong the scent is, how much pressure you've applied, the breed of dog, the dog's experience, wild bird or planted bird, etc. "Soft" points usually indicate a hesitancy on dog's part (or the bird is a long ways away) and you should let it work through it and relocate on it's own. Planted birds represent an artificial situation and dogs learn that they can get very close before having to "lock up"; hence they are to be used sparingly. Wild birds give the best education. Seems like you're doing just fine.
- BuckeyeSteve
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:09 am
- Location: Valencia, PA (north of Pgh)
Re: "soft" points
Thanks! Much appreciated.Ouzel wrote:assuming you're not interfering with the dog's ability to decide when the scent is strong enough to make a firm point then you should let the dog decide. There's a lot that goes into the dog making a point - how strong the scent is, how much pressure you've applied, the breed of dog, the dog's experience, wild bird or planted bird, etc. "Soft" points usually indicate a hesitancy on dog's part (or the bird is a long ways away) and you should let it work through it and relocate on it's own. Planted birds represent an artificial situation and dogs learn that they can get very close before having to "lock up"; hence they are to be used sparingly. Wild birds give the best education. Seems like you're doing just fine.
Re: "soft" points
That's just something young dogs go through as part of the learning process. First, they remember every single spot they've ever had a bird, and tend to check those spots. Then, they sometimes have trouble discerning scent and will point feathers or limgering scent or whatever from planted birds that have been flushed. Also, they can get sticky, being overly cautious in your training area, to avoid making a mistake.
They usually outgrow this stuff.
What I do to help them, when I *know* there is no bird, is to not allow the mousing around...a simple 'All right, let's go' let's them move on. If I'm not sure there's a bird there, I give the dog a chance to point, and move him on if he doesn't, and come back to that area later. I want my dog to either locate game or get somewhere else to locate game, not do any rooting around; point or don't point, but don't be messing around in there. Sometimes imstead of verbally moving the dog on, simply ignoring the false/soft points works; keep moving forward and pay no attention. Depends on the situation amd the dog. In training situations, rooting around easily leads to rooting birds out, a step backwards. So standing there watching a dog do that is no good, IMO.
This stuff is something I go slow and easy with, no physical or loud correction, just enough to help the dog make up his mind. Eventually they figure it out. I find it helps to not use the same brush piles or even the same fields over and over again. Mixing things up a bit helps with the stickiness.
They usually outgrow this stuff.
What I do to help them, when I *know* there is no bird, is to not allow the mousing around...a simple 'All right, let's go' let's them move on. If I'm not sure there's a bird there, I give the dog a chance to point, and move him on if he doesn't, and come back to that area later. I want my dog to either locate game or get somewhere else to locate game, not do any rooting around; point or don't point, but don't be messing around in there. Sometimes imstead of verbally moving the dog on, simply ignoring the false/soft points works; keep moving forward and pay no attention. Depends on the situation amd the dog. In training situations, rooting around easily leads to rooting birds out, a step backwards. So standing there watching a dog do that is no good, IMO.
This stuff is something I go slow and easy with, no physical or loud correction, just enough to help the dog make up his mind. Eventually they figure it out. I find it helps to not use the same brush piles or even the same fields over and over again. Mixing things up a bit helps with the stickiness.
- isonychia
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
- Location: Southwestern Colorado
Re: "soft" points
That is called sticky. I have a dog with a photo memory and he stickies on places where we found coveys more than a year ago. Don't you?
Re: "soft" points
Have a number of different fields to train in and keep moving around. Don't always put down birds for them either. Sometimes just take them for a walk, preferably where they may run into a wild bird or three!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: "soft" points
Excellent point here!DonF wrote:...Don't always put down birds for them either. Sometimes just take them for a walk, preferably where they may run into a wild bird or three!
IME using the same field with birds down each time leads to the dog getting sticky, cautious, and creep-y. But when the field is dry about 2/3 of the time, the dog sweeps through nice and quick. Then if he scents a bird on another occasion, he slams it. Nothing prettier!
- BuckeyeSteve
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:09 am
- Location: Valencia, PA (north of Pgh)
Re: "soft" points
Thanks all! I appreciate the info on this.... I'm going to start by cleaning up that field. the birds go back to the flight pen at night but can't go in. I'll go net them and put them away so they won't be around the field when we go through...."dry it out". I have a few other fields, so I'll do better about spreading the launcher out.
Much appreciated!
Much appreciated!
Re: "soft" points
Steve,
That's a lot of 4.50 homeless birds ya got there
We have a little call back cage that we set down under our coop to catch our training birds. Hardware cloth, about 20X30X 10, with a funnel on the side and a hatch opening on top. Set a little food and water inside, and our returnees don't have to wander around panhandling for shelter and dinner.
That's a lot of 4.50 homeless birds ya got there
We have a little call back cage that we set down under our coop to catch our training birds. Hardware cloth, about 20X30X 10, with a funnel on the side and a hatch opening on top. Set a little food and water inside, and our returnees don't have to wander around panhandling for shelter and dinner.
Re: "soft" points
You could put a callback cone in the side of the flight pen. they work great. Might want to cover it at night to keep out predators......CjBuckeyeSteve wrote:Thanks all! I appreciate the info on this.... I'm going to start by cleaning up that field. the birds go back to the flight pen at night but can't go in. I'll go net them and put them away so they won't be around the field when we go through...."dry it out". I have a few other fields, so I'll do better about spreading the launcher out.
Much appreciated!