Gun Dog Forum

https://youtu.be/nY4VpJjwWNM

Stella went to her new home today. This video is of her new owners learning to handle her in the field.

Stella is steady on her birds until released, does a nice flush/stop on cue and has a natural retrieve. In this video, I'm having the new owners take turns learning to handling Stella and shooting over her. At this stage, I connect (mentally and physically) the new handler and the dog together with the checkcord for a few sessions. There are a number of new associations that need to be made both for the dog and the handler. The dog needs to associate what he already knows to a new handler including the new voice, new timing, different body movements and cues, etc. The handler needs to learn how to read the dog and learn when to move, when to be still, when to cue the dog, etc.

We had a lot of fun. I'm sure Stella will be happy in her new home.

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

Hey Brad nice video as usual. Why is it a good idea to let the dog bury the bird?

You know what I appreciate? I appreciate these videos for their candid factual display of what actually transpires as opposed to some videos where the ALREADY trained dog is doing everything right. Why? Because the dog is ALREADY trained! As such, a novice doesn't see/learn what happens when things don't go exactly as planned (as in the dog burying the bird).
I don't train my dogs to do that - the flush part. I still ask my dogs to hold for me to flush. That isn't the point. I LOVE to learn new stuff even after all these years.
Thank you Mr. Higgins!

I am sure a Good pointing bred dog will Point wild birds if they are exposed to them often enough ....I hear told ?
So ,....a Long line with the "New" , well really actual Handler owner who has not done the handling would be Not How "Higgins" does it ? .... Because there would Not be a Long line ..would there ?. Subtly ..the suggestion or maybe Not would be "Transition to the New handler ,handling ..or Dog being handled by New Owner. ?
Either side of the pond .... A pointing Dog that has been exposed to Game and points does Not care who or what is at the end of any check chord !! ..It may look good for some that are at the end of it ..But My personal opinion is ..You dont figure !!..So go figure .
Stella (imo) Is Not ready for her New home .
She is ready to be sold to her original owners in the belief that they can do what "Higgins" can do with their dog .

polmaise wrote: Stella (imo) Is Not ready for her New home .

I posted the same comment on another forum this morning. A dog roading in on a bird to within 2 feet and then burying a bird is not ready to go home to a handler who knows very little about handling their dog and less about training.

Hello All. I'll try and answer a few questions.

If you watch the video, listen to the narrative and please, if you would, read the text that I included there on Youtube. It explains a lot about what I'm doing with Stella and her new handler. First, because my method is based on trust, not obedience, the relationship between the handler and the dog is different. Stella is steady when I handle her because she knows that working with me, trusting me, pays off. In my experience, dogs learn best by building natural associations. It's how pack animals learn to cooperate for the greater good. The reason I have Stella on a check cord for a few sessions with her new handler, is so that they can begin building that necessary, trusting relationship. I need her to associate the new handler with successful hunting. Just as she did with me. It takes only a few birds. Speaking of trust, that's why I sometimes give the bird to the dog. First, I always expect a natural retrieve to hand. Sometimes after offering the bird to me, instead of taking it and putting it in my pack, I will give it back to the dog. I'm sharing the kill with her, just as she did with me. Once I give it back to her, it is hers to do with whatever she pleases. If she sees it as valuable enough to bury, that's a good thing. Prey value equals drive, intensity and focus on birds. All the things we like to see.

Averageguy brought a comment over from another forum. Here, in part, is one of my replies from that discussion:

Yes, with my method we have different expectations and in fact, we hunt in a different, more natural way. All the dogs are expected to handle well, manage their birds (set the bird but don't flush until cued by the handler), Do an aggressive flush/stop when asked (our "alright" cue), be steady through wing, shot and fall, and then retrieve. Our dogs would never consider "creeping" (moving toward the bird with the intent to flush or chase). They manage or "stalk" to get close enough, without flushing the bird, to set the bird and be ready to do a flush/stop on our cue. It's what all predators naturally do, dogs included. Like I said, we hunt in a different way.

Another way to see it is that the bird is not ours, it's theirs. Ask them, they'll tell you. My job is to show them that If they're willing to work with me, I can be useful in getting that bird in their mouth. I tell them, I know I can't keep up and I can't smell a thing. But if you'll try a new strategy, be steady instead of chasing, I'll show you that I can be useful to the pack. I can kill the bird for you and get it in your mouth. They all take the deal.

I see the cue to flush as similar to what is practiced in France- once the hunter draws even with the dog, they walk in to the bird, together.

The retrieve/bird sharing thing is a little touchy feely for me, but, to each his own.

I've just watched the video and quite enjoyed it. I was not overly impressed with some of the work I saw though. The dog did not "go" well enough to suit me when hunting but then I tend to like the "slash and burn" sort of hunting dogs !
I did not like the very close approach of the dog to the bird. I prefer my dogs to stand off from the bird and then do a commanded flush.
I did like the flush to command - - - it was instant.

I very seldom find it necessary to put a check cord on a pointing dog at any stage of it's training . Dogs learn to hold point and flush on command and be steady to flush and shot and fall of game if you train for these things as part of a learning chain ...an invisible but very effective chain. I admit to being not very adroit with check cords though so maybe I am just doing what suits me best ? With me using the cord it seems to get caught up at very inappropriate moments !

Is the check cord inhibiting the dog from hunting like a bat out of heck , does this happen with many of the dogs trained using your method ?


The actual retrieve of the shot bird was not shown ? Why ? Personally , I take the directly opposite view to you Brad where retrieving is concerned. I too like and train for the so-called "natural retrieve" but for me , the bird is "mine" and not the dogs. It belongs to me and I may or may not allow the dog to retrieve it. It is a privilege I give to the dog that I may permit the dog to bring back the bird for me.


The scene where the dog made a cracking good job of burying "it's" bird for possible later consumption made me smile ! I applaud you for keeping it in the video . Is that the result of letting the dog think the bird belongs to it ? If so then I will stick to my own way of doing things. I've never had a dog that buried birds and I also train cockers . That breed was once famous for burying shot birds !

Bill T.

I don't think she's ready either.

The reward bird is interesting! I hunted with a good ol’ boy in high school. He would give the dog the heart as he was cleaning birds. His thought was along yours...reward for working with me. I had a Vizsla thought was a pretty poor hunter then I cooked up a bunch of pheasant and shared it with her. Whole new ball game!