Retrieve

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Flashorthair
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Retrieve

Post by Flashorthair » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:49 pm

I've had 11 shorthairs over the years and this is a new one on me. I have a 2 year old male and has all of the hunt and style in the world. Steady to wing and shot as long as they are fly aways and he will not pick up a dead bird. I am working him on the table and force breaking him so no worry's, just wondering if anyone else has seen one do this. Doesn't loose the birds, marks them and goes straight to them, just doesn't want to pick them up. All of the other dogs I've had, no problem picking them up,some you may have to run after but not him. Again, no worry's, just wondering if anyone else had seen it....

Trekmoor
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Re: Retrieve

Post by Trekmoor » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:34 am

I don't do force breaking of any kind but my dogs still retrieve game.Perhaps the switchover to freshly shot birds was a bit too abrupt for your dog ? Perhaps it just isn't used to being asked to pick up still very warm birds ? I get a keen "natural" retrieve going well first using bumpers and then I substitute a dead bird for the bumper, placing the dead bird in the same area that the dog has been retrieving bumpers from.
If a dog shows reluctance to retrieve the bird then I leave it alone for a day or two then begin again but in a more graduated manner.

I firmly attach bird wings to a bumper and throw that for the dog. Then I put a bird inside a segment of ladies nylon stocking and tie it off to form a bundle from which no feathers poke out. I encourage the dog to retrieve that then begin to cut small holes in the nylon and pull a few feathers through those holes. Very gradually the dog will be picking up and retrieving a "bundle" that eventually has quite a lot of feather sticking out and maybe the birds head too.

Then I try again with a cold, dead bird and then with a freshly killed one. I find it can help if, so far as is possible, dogs/pups get so used to retrieving from a particular piece of ground that when they are taken there they know a retrieve will be there for them. The main thing that can go wrong with this kind of "place training" is that you maybe "poison" the place in the dogs mind by getting a bit angry with it or by insisting upon strict obedience in that area. Keep it enjoyable for the dog/pup and add the fancy obedience stuff later in easy stages.

So far, doing this slow, gentle introduction to feather has always worked for me. My dogs - - - GSP's, brittanies, spaniels and labs are all very keen retrievers.


I am very confident that your dog will eventually retrieve game whichever method of training you choose to use.


Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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Cicada
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Re: Retrieve

Post by Cicada » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:03 am

I have had 2 that did just that one never did pick up a bird the other would if the other dog in the field tried to take it from her. I blame both on my inexperience and my father's need to get the grouse before the dog

Give Trekmoor's method a shot looks like a solid process.

Grant

polmaise
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Re: Retrieve

Post by polmaise » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:04 pm

In all the years I have had Pointers ,I have never had any issues with picking up ,holding or retrieving and delivering Game tenderly to hand, said "A very well known successful Trainer of these breeds " .
"I train and condition the Retrieving before the Hunting and Pointing when they are Pups " He said.
That doesn't help someone with a 2 year old that has not had this start in life , so "Back chaining" is what Bill T is suggesting .
Not Force . It will go against you (imo) with one that has learned Other things in 2 years .

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Sharon
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Re: Retrieve

Post by Sharon » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:22 pm

Yes, I had one that never would pick up a dead bird despite professional help.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

Trekmoor
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Re: Retrieve

Post by Trekmoor » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:12 am

Trekmoor wrote: I get a keen "natural" retrieve going well first using bumpers


Bill T.

I agree that a dog or a pup that has done a lot of hunting and little if any retrieve practice may well be a reluctant or even a non-retriever. That's why I said the above.

I greatly prefer to balance out the hunting and the retrieving while a pup is still young in order to keep both of these things going at the same time. It still quite often happens however that a pup will greatly prefer hunting to retrieving and may refuse to retrieve. The retrieve instinct is still there though and I work on bringing it to the fore again.

I stop all hunting for as much as 2 weeks to 3 months while I develop the retrieve instinct a good bit more.

If the O.P.'s pup did any retrieving at all as a puppy …. I mean "fun and games" style retrieving, then it does have a retrieve instinct, most dogs do, it just needs developing …...so back to puppy style fun and games retrieving for a while as the retrieve instinct gets boosted. This slow way of training for a keen retrieve suits me but probably will not suit a pro trainer who has a money paying client breathing down his neck for a quick result.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

Timewise65
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Re: Retrieve

Post by Timewise65 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:17 am

I agree that going through the FF routine may resolve this problem. I am a retriever guy, but have many friends who own and work pointers and setters. I think it is unusual for a pup to not want to pick up birds, and some cannot be trained to it! But your best shot is the FF you are doing. Be sure to transition to a real dead bird on the table, after the formal FF is complete. This will hopefully get through to the pup that birds count in the FF training...

Good Luck

polmaise
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Re: Retrieve

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:59 pm

Call me Old fashioned ..
I reckon every pup from a Dachshund to Great Dane is born with one single thing .
That will be Chase /Prey drive .
I also reckon they are 100% perfect when they are born . (Well they would be ,otherwise y"all would not have chosen them .
We tend to feck them up thereafter ,with our personal attention to our detail . In many cases .

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