Hi guys,
I took my year old GSP out for a hunt this morning st a local preserve. While we came home with birds, it wasn’t what I had hoped for. The dog caught two chukar, and I shot a pheasant he had missed and ran past. It has rained here in Ohio on and off for the last two days, and it had rained this morning before we went out, so their was standing water and the cover was wet, as well as the birds. The dog has always pointed before this, and he even pointed some cover this morning. I am not sure if he had ran through and bumped the birds, or if the birds wouldn’t fly, but regardless he caught them. Hiw does wet weather effect birds flying, and how does it effect the dogs nose? Any training advice I can use to hopefully correct his behavior? We went out thanksgiving morning in perfect conditions, and he pointed and retrieved all five birds, so this is a first for him. Thank you!
Wet weather and poor performance
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PoorMansWrangler
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:51 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Wet pen raised birds often struggle to fly.
He probably pointed, then took them out. And they couldn't fly away. Others will have better ideas how to address, but in the meantime, don't hunt the game farms when its super wet.
He probably pointed, then took them out. And they couldn't fly away. Others will have better ideas how to address, but in the meantime, don't hunt the game farms when its super wet.
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
A few things to consider...
Wind direction. IME wind from the east, NE, SE or anything east means poor scenting conditions and it can mess things up. I'm in Ohio too, and the wind this morning was from the NW so that most likely was not the problem, but something to keep in mind.
Your dog is a year old, and IME once again, young dogs can go through what I call derby-itis ( we compete, and the coming derby/ derby year is what I'm referencing). A previously 'natural' pup just gets too big for his britches and thinks taking birds out is way more fun than pointing and waiting for The Boss to wander over and flush them. The solution is to get to training and steady the dog. The longer you wait hoping for the pup to straighten himself out, the tougher it will be for you to get him to change his mind back to pointing.
Pen raised quail live to die on days like today, so I'd mostly give a young dog a pass on them. Chukar and pheasant, not so much. It doesn't seems like they give up the ghost so quickly and their scent along with it. See above...steady the dog.
You might be ok to give a benefit of the doubt and take the dog out again on a better weather/drier day and have him return to pointing, but if you do and he misbehaves, don't tolerate it.
Wind direction. IME wind from the east, NE, SE or anything east means poor scenting conditions and it can mess things up. I'm in Ohio too, and the wind this morning was from the NW so that most likely was not the problem, but something to keep in mind.
Your dog is a year old, and IME once again, young dogs can go through what I call derby-itis ( we compete, and the coming derby/ derby year is what I'm referencing). A previously 'natural' pup just gets too big for his britches and thinks taking birds out is way more fun than pointing and waiting for The Boss to wander over and flush them. The solution is to get to training and steady the dog. The longer you wait hoping for the pup to straighten himself out, the tougher it will be for you to get him to change his mind back to pointing.
Pen raised quail live to die on days like today, so I'd mostly give a young dog a pass on them. Chukar and pheasant, not so much. It doesn't seems like they give up the ghost so quickly and their scent along with it. See above...steady the dog.
You might be ok to give a benefit of the doubt and take the dog out again on a better weather/drier day and have him return to pointing, but if you do and he misbehaves, don't tolerate it.
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Wet Wild birds would rather run than Fly ,same as pen raised ,no matter what Country you are in (imo) .
Living in Scotland I consider myself an Expert on Rain ! ..
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I am more than sure the scent from a "Drookit" bird is so much different from a Dry one , (You may have to Google Drookit) and I am more than sure the scent from a Dry one closing its feathers In tight ! ..to Not let scent out when it is frozen still in cover/safety ,with a Dog glaring at it ,is so much more different when Hard rain, that stuff that gets everything just ......well ..WET ! ..
.....
Just for discussion .. Does a Dry sock smell the same as a Wet Sock ?
Rain or wet weather is or should not be a disadvantage for Game or Dog or shooter . A downpour of water that nobody likes where it gets down the back of your neck and you really should be back home ,Is no fun for anyone .
Living in Scotland I consider myself an Expert on Rain ! ..
....
I am more than sure the scent from a "Drookit" bird is so much different from a Dry one , (You may have to Google Drookit) and I am more than sure the scent from a Dry one closing its feathers In tight ! ..to Not let scent out when it is frozen still in cover/safety ,with a Dog glaring at it ,is so much more different when Hard rain, that stuff that gets everything just ......well ..WET ! ..
.....
Just for discussion .. Does a Dry sock smell the same as a Wet Sock ?
Rain or wet weather is or should not be a disadvantage for Game or Dog or shooter . A downpour of water that nobody likes where it gets down the back of your neck and you really should be back home ,Is no fun for anyone .
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PoorMansWrangler
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:51 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Thanks for the advice all! Hoping to take him out later this weekend when conditions are better. I am going to try and make him stay a little closer as well so I can try and get a better view of what’s going on. Unfortunately today he was about 100 yards away, so I couldn’t quite tel. What would be the best way to crack down on him if he does this in the future? Bringing him back to woah, and from then on when I see him start to get birdy manually woah?
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Let him Be ...and leave your Barrel of Woes in the yard ...Just walk the 99 yards and let it be . (Beatles song) .PoorMansWrangler wrote:Thanks for the advice all! Hoping to take him out later this weekend when conditions are better. I am going to try and make him stay a little closer as well so I can try and get a better view of what’s going on. Unfortunately today he was about 100 yards away, so I couldn’t quite tel. What would be the best way to crack down on him if he does this in the future? Bringing him back to woah, and from then on when I see him start to get birdy manually woah?
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
You're correct, you first have to see what exactly is going on. Is he blowing by birds, is he rooting out lousy wet birds, is he bumping and grabbing or chasing?
If he's finding birds but not pointing, you have to go back - if you were ever there in the first place - to a check cord and do some steadying. They say wild birds teach a dog; how would we poor Buckeyes know anything about that? All I know is that pen raised birds require *us* to get our dogs steady and that means cc's or launchers. CC's are cheaper.
If you attempt to whoa your dog on birds, how do you plan to do that, or make a correction when he ignores you, when he is 100 yards off? Or even 10 yards off? Thought so...ya can't. Even if you got lucky and were able to stop him on a bird or two, is that really what you want to do every time you go out? Whoa is a command, and when your dog stops when you whoa him, he's obeying you, not stopping on scent. IMO whoa is something to use when a dog breaks point and roots or busts, and you need to stop him. It's not for 'making' him point.
Plant a few birds, put the dog on a cc and keep quiet. Let him stop on his own if he will. If he goes in, pop the cc and stop him. It sounds like your pup has lots of natural ability, so just reinforcing his previous performance shouldn't take long. Just don't get into whoaing and yapping to keep him steady, because that's not something you're going to want to do for the next 12 years.
Look on this as an opportunity to hone your skills. Those really nice pups that seem to know everything right out of the box make us look like great dog guys ( or gals as the case may be). But really, we don't have to think about training, or figure out problems, or learn anything. It's the bumps in the road in bringing along a dog that make us better. Have fun with it. Good luck to you.
If he's finding birds but not pointing, you have to go back - if you were ever there in the first place - to a check cord and do some steadying. They say wild birds teach a dog; how would we poor Buckeyes know anything about that? All I know is that pen raised birds require *us* to get our dogs steady and that means cc's or launchers. CC's are cheaper.
If you attempt to whoa your dog on birds, how do you plan to do that, or make a correction when he ignores you, when he is 100 yards off? Or even 10 yards off? Thought so...ya can't. Even if you got lucky and were able to stop him on a bird or two, is that really what you want to do every time you go out? Whoa is a command, and when your dog stops when you whoa him, he's obeying you, not stopping on scent. IMO whoa is something to use when a dog breaks point and roots or busts, and you need to stop him. It's not for 'making' him point.
Plant a few birds, put the dog on a cc and keep quiet. Let him stop on his own if he will. If he goes in, pop the cc and stop him. It sounds like your pup has lots of natural ability, so just reinforcing his previous performance shouldn't take long. Just don't get into whoaing and yapping to keep him steady, because that's not something you're going to want to do for the next 12 years.
Look on this as an opportunity to hone your skills. Those really nice pups that seem to know everything right out of the box make us look like great dog guys ( or gals as the case may be). But really, we don't have to think about training, or figure out problems, or learn anything. It's the bumps in the road in bringing along a dog that make us better. Have fun with it. Good luck to you.
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PoorMansWrangler
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:51 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Just wanted to post and update, we took him back out this weekend. For the most part it went well, he pointed 5 pheasant, and he bumped 2, both of which were runners. On the two he bumped, I was close enough to see he would go on point, the bird would move, and he would try to reposition himself and end up flushing the bird. I did notice however that he had a few “false” points, where their would not be any birds, but I found feathers, and on these points you could definitely tell a difference in his demeanor and body language. When he was actually pointing a bird, he was rock steady and I could tell the difference. On the birds he bumped as well, I could see his body language kind of change, almost as if he knew he goofed. I’m hoping some of this is just due to more experience needed, as this is only his 6th time out really, but I can see improvement each time we go out.
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Good for you for reading your dog correctly on those false points. It's a young dog thing, he'll figure out to stop on body scent,not feather scent.
Thanks for the update, glad to hear that your outing went well. What a relief, righr?
Thanks for the update, glad to hear that your outing went well. What a relief, righr?
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averageguy
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:07 am
Re: Wet weather and poor performance
Back when I hunted some pen raised birds, I still refused to hunt them when it was raining or very wet in the cover. Pen raised birds cannot fly when their feathers get wet and it brings out the worst in the dog work.