Why whoa a dog that holds point

griffgirl · Post by **griffgirl** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:45 pm

My brother-in-law is driving me nuts.We have a 9 month old Griff that will point and hold point,marks the bird and will retrieve the bird.Also tracks very well.

Why would you whoa train a dog that holds point.I was hunting with him yesterday and Parker went on point.now he will hold point for awhile and I never have to worry about him moving.

So the brother-in-law says that I should of held him there and pet him an the back and should of told him whoa.Also he says I should of told him good boy good boy.WHY?If the dog is holding point why do this?When Parker does do a good job believe me I get down and praise the crap out of him.

The other thing was Parker was tracking a Rooster down a row of sorgumn and he says I should of gave him the whoa.WHY?Now our Griff isnt a big runner and he will not bump birds either.

So please some input......
thanks

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:05 pm

Teaching whoa is for those times when the dpog wants to break on a bird before your ready for them to

But when a dog is on point and holding the handler should also learn to keep the mouth shut when no command is needed

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:08 pm

Why don't you ask your brother-in-law as to why? I can think of several reasons but none in the situation you describe so I am curious also.

Ezzy

griffgirl · Post by **griffgirl** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:11 pm

Those were me thoughts........

I can be in front of him kicking grass looking for the bird and he wont even wink.Just holds point.One time he did look up at me like he was saying dumb A** its right there.

I did ask him yesterday and he said thats what you are suppose to do in some of his training.Ive never ever talked to the pup when I am hunting and maybe thats why he holds so well.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:13 pm

Sounds like you need to tell him to watch his mouth and forget whoa.

Ezzy

Devils Creek · Post by **Devils Creek** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:12 pm

Now if you've got a pup that will track a fleet footed rooster, and then reestablish point, I don't think you're going to have a problem. I would suggest that your dog knows more about what's happening, than your brother-in-law.

However, If you're eventually going to want a dog that is steady to flush, whoa will have to be taught at some point. Personally, at 9 months, I wouldn't be telling him much.

I really don't do much on this until the second summer training, but I train Horseback trial dogs that are required to be steady to wing & shot on wild birds.

If you're just training a hunting dog, I'd keep on doing what you're doing, and see how things turn out. There are dogs that are born broke, and your job is not to screw him up.

jhoughton · Post by **jhoughton** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:33 am

Sounds to me that you are doing things right. The less you say to a dog on point the more style it will usually retain. I have seen alot of dogs that the owner tells whoa to if it needs it or not and instantly start flagging or lose intensity. There is no need to whoa a dog that is staunch...

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:48 am

griffgirl wrote:Why would you whoa train a dog that holds point.I was hunting with him yesterday and Parker went on point.now he will hold point for awhile and I never have to worry about him moving.

You wouldn't as long as he was steady to the point and not indicating he would move. Even if he jumps and busts the bird, isn't this how we teach them not to? If you keep using whoa as a crutch, the pup will never learn.

The other thing was Parker was tracking a Rooster down a row of sorgumn and he says I should of gave him the whoa.WHY?Now our Griff isnt a big runner and he will not bump birds either.

So please some input......

To me, the only reason to do this would be to slow him down and make him a little more cautious. It's better to just teach him to track slowly but this is another alternative if you have a fast dog. The disadvantage, besides making a dog tentative, is that you'll blow every bird in the area out of there by yelling "Whoa" all the time.

FTbritts · Post by **FTbritts** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:14 am

Get your brother in law a roll of duck tape.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:23 am

It is actually "duct" tape, but in this case, I like your version better.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:24 pm

Devils Creek with the method I use the bird in the air tells the dog to whoa. We teach stop to flush at the same time we are working on being staunch

Devils Creek · Post by **Devils Creek** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:41 pm

volraider wrote:Devils Creek with the method I use the bird in the air tells the dog to whoa. We teach stop to flush at the same time we are working on being staunch

Absolutely, and I do exactly the same thing..but with a dog that's maybe 18 months or so. I will have taught him to whoa as a separate item before this.

The dog is already hunting and holding birds to some extent.

Teaching a 5-9 month old dog to stop to flush, and steady to wing and shot is like teaching a second grader calculus. These are the most complicated contradictory things the dog will ever learn. He needs maturity, or the fire will be put out.

FTbritts · Post by **FTbritts** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:35 pm

Wagonmaster wrote:It is actually "duct" tape, but in this case, I like your version better.

John,but I buy duck tape not duct tape. Guess you could use the term either way.

http://www.duckproducts.com/products/su ... =1&SubID=1

Rip ya off about 12" of the stuff and put it over his mouth before you hit the field. I did this to a friend that constantly hollered whoa to his dog all the time. He got my point.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:44 pm

SettersRus · Post by **SettersRus** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:18 am

Sounds as if your pup is doing great and holding well. You did not mention whether or not he would honor another dog. If your hunting with other dogs many times your dog, even if he does honor, may not see another dog on point. I use 2 commands depending on the circumstances. I use a soft spoken eeezy to slow one down and that lets him know to be cautious and I use whoa to stop him. He may be upwind or not have sent but if I say whoa he knows to stop. I would not say a word if the dog is doing what it needs to do. Tell your bother-in-law that you will give your dog the commands.

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:06 am

FTbritts wrote:
Wagonmaster wrote:It is actually "duct" tape, but in this case, I like your version better.
John,but I buy duck tape not duct tape. Guess you could use the term either way.

http://www.duckproducts.com/products/su ... =1&SubID=1

I love how someone made a company called "Duck" that makes duct tape. Filled a void for all those people searching for "duck tape." Ingenious marketing.

griffgirl · Post by **griffgirl** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:13 pm

When we hunt with him and other dogs I just stay in my own part of the field I will take the outer rows or sorgumn and then swing to the edges of the woods ect.I dont really want him to be hunting with the other dogs right now.

When he use to here the shot of another gun he wanted to run over there and HELP out but now he doesnt even care its only my shot of the gun that he cares about.

I dont go with the Broth-In-Law all that much.Its only been twice and that was because we were going to hit a spot that was about 200 acres and wanted another dog.

Well with the bad taste he put in my mouth enough is enough.The 2 times I did go was enough for me for about another 2 years.

I just joined the Kettle Moraine NAVHDA Chapter and will be going to some of the training days there so I will have alot of good help to get Parker ready for his NA test and maybe alittle futher down the road more trials.
Thanks for all the comments.....
Shawn

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:36 pm

Devils Creek wrote:Teaching a 5-9 month old dog to stop to flush, and steady to wing and shot is like teaching a second grader calculus.

I like that analogy. Just wish more people would understand the importance of letting a dog mature. Everyone's in such a hurry to make a field champion. :roll:

Silver Sage Kennels · Post by **Silver Sage Kennels** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:58 pm

Chaingang your right it seems like everyday I read several posts about my 3, 6 or 9 month old this and that. Let the pup be a pup and finish them when they are ready. BTW I usually break them at 18-24 months. I do train them when they are younger but that is everyday stuff like walking on a lead, kennel, here and how to handle on foot, atv and horseback ect.

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Why whoa a dog that holds point

Why whoa a dog that holds point

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