Proper use of the Check Cord

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connorj
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Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by connorj » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:52 am

Been working on obedience for the past 6 months with my 1 year old Lab/Pointer mix, we got her at 6 months old. I am still have issues with Heel and getting the Dog to understand being released from heel. She has learned Heel and release to OK through clicker training but she still wants to pull on the leash and do as she pleases on walks and when in the field while on the check cord. Sometimes just to get her to sit at my side I have to pull her with the check cord and it is and endless battle from her to get to proper position. I was instructed to do it this way previously in field training and it was a battle then too but I can't help but feeling I am doing more harm than good pulling and pulling on her neck while she seems to absently minded focus on whatever she wants and ignore me.

Does anybody have a better solution to working on good heeling and/or additionally proper check cord use?

fishvik
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by fishvik » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:50 am

A little nick with an E collar works wonders. If you don't have an E collar a wonder lead or power stick are good tools for teaching heel and whoa. Read up on their proper use. My own experience has been that a check cord is hard to teach heel because the dog has to much lead. But getting back to my original comment investment in and proper use of an e collar works wonders.

averageguy
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by averageguy » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:17 am

I use a variety of methods in teaching heel depending on how it is going with each individual dog. I had one in the past that just would not stop pulling as he was a dog which enjoyed it was my read. I put a prong collar on the dog and he immediately felt the pressure and yielded to it. The dog immediately ended his pulling and did so of his own choice/actions. I never pulled or snapped the lead on the collar and instead the dog simply yielded to the pressure of the prongs which he created by forging ahead of my knee vs maintaining the correct position with his head beside my knee. The prong collar training aid helped the dog to immediately understand that his position relative to my knee applied and or relieved the pressure around his neck. My having done the prior marker/treat heel training on that dog (as you have done with yours) was key to him connecting the dots quickly when I went to the prong collar as he already understood what he was being asked to do.

I engrained the correct behavior walking the dog at heel in the correct position using my marker/treat re-enforcement and he quickly became very reliable at walking at heel off lead anywhere including in the field. With that in place I then overlaid the ecollar and used a nick if the dog fell out of the correct position and he swiftly became reliable enough (with no training aids) to get maximum scores in the heeling segments through gates of the NAVHDA tests I ran that dog through.

Might give a prong collar a try, it was an extremely easy fix with that dog and it might be with yours.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:19 am

Quit dinking around. Fastest way to teach heel is a pinch collar and heeling stick. Or, just the heeling stick. It gives the dog a visual marker.
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connorj
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by connorj » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Thanks everyone. A prong collar was my next consideration. Does anyone have experience with head halters? I have seen people use leads and rope to do a similar thing as a head halter but was wondering if the pinch collar is just more effective since that seems to be the more commonly considered tool.

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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by cjhills » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:41 pm

I used to use what I suppose would be called a head halter. They work unbelievably well for control. I thought they were a little harsh. Now I mostly use a healing stick. Occasionally I use a choke chain on a check cord on a spoiled dog. But normally I don't use a leash unless the law requires it. I have 5 dogs in my kennel right now that have never wore a leash.
The one think that all the options have in common is that you need to train the dog to give to whatever form of pressure you use. It really makes no difference what is on the dogs neck, it is what's on the other end of the leash or checkcord that counts. Don't try to out muscle him with a steady pull. You are training him to pull and you will lose that battle. Pressure on and pressure off. What you use to make the pressure is irrelevant...…...Cj

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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by polmaise » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:14 pm

Heel is a place ,not an activity.
So I start with that,before I put movement in to it.
https://youtu.be/9vnkroc0fA0

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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by Mackenzie » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:43 pm

polmaise wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:14 pm
Heel is a place ,not an activity.
So I start with that,before I put movement in to it.
https://youtu.be/9vnkroc0fA0
WOW!!!! That was amazing. What type of training did you do to get the dogs to that point (Placeboards) ? Do you have any videos on that?

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gundogguy
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by gundogguy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:43 am

polmaise wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:14 pm
Heel is a place ,not an activity.
So I start with that,before I put movement in to it.
https://youtu.be/9vnkroc0fA0
Good show, Robert
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by Featherfinder » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:25 am


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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by DonF » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:07 am

There's different ways of doing everything but, two thing's absolutely necessary. Consistency and repetition! Don't care what method you use, mess up those two point's and you won't get there. I learned obedience training from a lady that ran obedience trials. We used properly fit and installed choke collars. They work and are no more dangerous than any other collar used properly! If your dog is pulling forward or side way's it's because the dog is not paying attention to you. Quit walking in a straight line all the time! Turn away from the dog, turn into the dog and do a 180 on the dog. If the dog is not paying attention to you, you lose. If you noticed the dog's in polmaise's video, the dog's are very place orientated, look at them pay attention to him. They are not simply out for a walk doing what they feel like doing, they are walking at heel and paying attention to the handler. They don't pay attention, you don't get there! It is not about tool's, they all work. It's about consistency and repetition! The tool is just an aide. You can abuse it or not depending on you. You can put it on right or wrong, learn to do it right. The end of the collar that hooks to the lead goes over the top of the neck. Reason, when you tug on the color then let up the other end, under the neck release's the collar! Put it on backward and the leash end falls over the other end and does not loosen! You'll see the same thing which ever collar you use unless the collar is designed not to loosen. Look's to me like the wonder lead is designed not to loosen, I've never used one. That lead Higgins showed probably doesn't either. It loosen's to much and the part over the nose falls off the nose. Proper fit: if the collar is to long and you snap it up, you slap the dog in the side of the hear with the collar. Pretty good way to make a dog head shy but the doesn't work that well training anything else! The pinch collar will do that but the prong collars I've seen don't, regardless I despise the prong collar. Show me someone with a prong collar and I see someone that is a hard trainer! Pay attention to your dog. If your dog is ducking at commands, your to heavy handed. It ducks because it knows what is about to happen but the problem is it does not know why! Watching polmaise's dog, watch their heads, not a duck one, they know what is happening and why!
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averageguy
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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by averageguy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:48 am

The Wonder Lead does loosen immediately and that is the beauty of it. It loosens immediately when the dog in in the correct position and it tightens when it is not. So the dog can learn how to avoid the pressure. It is a pretty handy training aid and I especially like how easy it goes on and off and can be accessed behind my back in the training vest. Call the dog in while in the field, put the Wonder Lead over its head and begin heeling it off.

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Re: Proper use of the Check Cord

Post by polmaise » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:15 pm

Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:43 pm
polmaise wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:14 pm
Heel is a place ,not an activity.
So I start with that,before I put movement in to it.
https://youtu.be/9vnkroc0fA0
WOW!!!! That was amazing. What type of training did you do to get the dogs to that point (Placeboards) ? Do you have any videos on that?
Placeboards are good Tools for Sit or delivery/Hold ,shaping behavior especially Wiggly excitable pup breeds like Cockers or Springers or often with other breeds who have been conditioned without intent by a handler who has allowed /or induced an excitable deliver ,but then again ,A placeboard can be a pallet or the back of a truck,or even a Kennel ! Creating the "Place" would have to be 'in place first'. :wink:
......
Once you get the dogs head in to thinking and believing that "Heel" is a Place to Be , rather than an activity of walking /moving next to you ,then You are half way towards achieving the DOG "Wanting to be in that place" .
Ever thought about Just standing still with the pup next to you with the lead/leash on the dog and doing absolutely nothing ,and re-inforce a previously known command like Sit (because every one can make a puppy sit with a sausage in their hand ..Can't they ? ) with a tiny bit of "Praise" for doing just that ? ..Like ..Yes,Good, or even a touch under the chin.
Obedience Heelwork (talking about Heelwork for competition in the Ring at Shows on green beize like Crufts ) Is all Good with a cupped hand and food treat with the dog Totally focused on the handlers movements and admire that stuff and great to watch ! , heck It is the basis of "Dancing with Dogs" and you can add Music later with good choreography and have a routine, but Gundogs and primarily speaking "Retriever breeds"

, because that is what is depicted in the clip ,as I dont particularly care two hoots how a Springer ,Cocker, or HPR walks to heel as long as it can Hunt on command when I take the lead off it when I get to the start point of the hunt. !(for competition in Trials or Tests) . The Ones who are Pets ,or live in City /town or occasionally do some "Gundog work in the shooting field would obviously require the same standard of heel as in the video IF THEY WERE EVER TO BE WALKED AT HEEL OFF LEAD ! ...
"What type of training did you do to get the dogs to that point" You ask Mackenzie ?
If it is a pup at 10 weeks old , the conditioning is the place that it should be has No Pressure!! so it Wants to be there. If it is a dog that has experienced pressure in or at that place , then certain tools used with correct application are useful in the right hands .
......
The video clip is with 3 siblings from the same litter,they are about 10/11 month old and I did NOT teach them to heel together . I taught them Heel individually ,then brought them together knowing what they have been taught Individually .
Wonder leads ,Haltis ,Pinch Collars ,impulse or tone vibrators , and all manner of Tools are ALL Good for Correction of a behavior and they Do work ! when used correctly with correct application,much like a common slip lead as mentioned by Shags ,when used in the wrong application they are and can be detrimental .
I can Make a Dog do pretty much do anything it is physically and mentally capable of doing in training.Making a dog Want to do it in Training,Is Training . (imo)

It started around about here Mackenzie :.. It was So much easier ,and always has been.
Line manners and noise ,and mouthing,and or excitement and spinning/popping ,delivery/hard mouth,lunging,etc etc..Icouldgoon.com. So it is Not in the breeding ,it is in the initial training that moulds the dog ,what happens after 4 weeks old and that dog is on solids from a human has huge implications ,and what happens with that pup after 8 weeks old when ,and or If it goes to a new owner ,has huge implications to the future of that pup , and what happens with that pup for 1 year depends on what it learns in that year . :wink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewn5aVeIUmA

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