Getting Springer to hunt closer..

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gunning
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Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gunning » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:39 pm

I have a 1 year old Springer that I’ve been working on basic obedience since he was a pup. Now that winter is over we’ve been getting out into the field and doing a little off leash work. It’s been going ok but he will take off and get too far out. I’ve been using the E-collar to help bring back in but ideally I don’t want to have to be correcting him all the time to get him to hunt close. I know I need to take a couple of steps back in training and keep a check cord on him. But does anyone have any tips or drills to fix a dog that’s doesn’t have that nice tight side to side pattern in close.


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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:00 pm

There is a process known as bird work and quartering drills that Spaniel folks use all over the country(USA).
A couple of short video's to give you an idea..The pup'sname in the video is our Zeta girl she is now FC AFC CFC Zeta girl and my estimation a world class hunting Spaniel. Best of luck with your hunting buddy.
I have personally trained hundreds of spaniel using the bird work and quartering drills you see in the video's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLfDsOJRLxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7QXYQOeR3U


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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gunning » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:57 pm

Outstanding work awesome dog!!


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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:31 am

Tell me something I don't know!
Now where do you live ? and who did you buy your dog from? we need to get you hooked up with a Spanieler that can get you and your on the right path to success. Knowledge is the key to dog hunting success.

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gunning » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:19 am

Thanks Hal, I will try to give a little more background info. We live in southern in southern Minnesota. We got our dog from a breeder here in southern Mn who has been doing this for over 30 years. Ive been around a couple of dogs from that breeder at work, they were good looking dogs, I really liked their temperament obedience, the owners have had multiple pups from that breeder and said they are good in the field. My dog Charlie is actually from the same dame and sire as the two dogs I was familiar with. We wanted a good family dog first and if he turns into a great hunting dog that's a bonus. He has been a great addition to the family he's been good in the house and great with the kids. Now I'm just just trying to figure out a game-plan to make him into a hunting dog as well.

We brought home Charlie last July and started basic "positive reinforcement" obedience training. We have taken through a couple of courses at the local kennel club over the winter. For his field training Ive been using things Ive learned out of Tom Dokken's book and some DVD's by Chris Atken. They are probably more for retriever training but have still found them useful I didn't get a lot of work in last fall with Charlie and I've just gotten getting out in the field now that winter is over here in Mn it was pretty brutal this year. I just picked up the book "Hup" by James Spencer, I'm reading that now and wish I would of found that book when I first started to train my dog I probably would of done some things differently. Charlie is my first attempt at training a gun dog.

Where do I think Charlie is at right now? Inside he's pretty locked on to his commands, take him in the backyard with a few more distractions its a little harder, get him out in the field with another level of distractions its more changeling. I know he needs to get better at the basic obedience in the field before we move on, but I also need to find the right info to become a better trainer as well

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:07 am

Well good for you. You live in a hotbed of Field bred springer folks. in fact your surrounded by them. If your breeder has 30 yrs under his belt he should be able to provide you with all kinds of help and assistance. as long as his back ground is in Field bred Springers and not show dog springers.
Check out https://essft.com/
another great resource for people around the country that are training working spaniels.
Best of luck
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by DonF » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:19 am

Tell me something. Does the ESSC of A still publish the "Springer Bark" magazine? If so it used to be in the back was all field trial new's and the guy could find people to help in it. Find a club close by that does field fun days with field dogs!
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by polmaise » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:00 pm

Gunning said,

" take him in the backyard with a few more distractions its a little harder, get him out in the field with another level of distractions its more changeling. I know he needs to get better at the basic obedience in the field before we move on, but I also need to find the right info to become a better trainer as well"
....
Took this one in the backyard this morning with a client handling. Basic obedience in the field for a Springer would be "Hunt" and know what it is hunting for .The best Info you get to be a better Trainer is doing it .
Heel ,sit,stay and general obedience is all well and good around the house or in places where we require this .
Having a coach/mentor on your shoulder is more valuable than a book or DVD when you are actually doing it (or learning to become that "better trainer")
..................
I like this little one 'Gundogguy' ... always did from day one of training ,rocky road with the handler to Catch up with the ability of the dog ,but we are getting there and First Field Trial destined for July/August on Rabbits-Grouse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN7zXhosNnA
Last edited by polmaise on Wed May 01, 2019 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:22 am

DonF wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:19 am
Tell me something. Does the ESSC of A still publish the "Springer Bark" magazine? If so it used to be in the back was all field trial new's and the guy could find people to help in it. Find a club close by that does field fun days with field dogs!
Sorry Don F The Bark is no longer,It was the best The finest quarterly dog mag ever, Ms Evelyn Bui the publisher was an awesome lady. It cover the Spaniel field trial scene like no other,
The best place for info and club resources is now
essft.com and it has trial schedule placements club info puppies pros around the country and so on.
Hal
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by DonF » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:31 am

gundogguy wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:22 am
DonF wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:19 am
Tell me something. Does the ESSC of A still publish the "Springer Bark" magazine? If so it used to be in the back was all field trial new's and the guy could find people to help in it. Find a club close by that does field fun days with field dogs!
Sorry Don F The Bark is no longer,It was the best The finest quarterly dog mag ever, Ms Evelyn Bui the publisher was an awesome lady. It cover the Spaniel field trial scene like no other,
The best place for info and club resources is now
essft.com and it has trial schedule placements club info puppies pros around the country and so on.
Hal
That's to bad.I loved that magazine!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gunning » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:38 am

Thanks guys for the responses I’ve got some feelers sent out to trainers and a club just waiting to hear back.


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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by DonF » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:41 am

Just a thought, been years since I've had Springer's so don't remember a lot. Obedience it seem's was #1 priority! You had to keep the dog in gun range. Then I don't recall ever working my dog's on panted bird's but over the years I've done a lot of them, just not flushing breed's. Seem's to me that you get obedience down well then salt a small field with bird's and simply go work obedience with the dog. Important to salt the field I would think, dog need's to figure out that you take it to the birds. For a good amount of time don't take the dog out of the field you salted, it could learn to run as you'd hope it wouldn't. It will hunt where it learned to find bird's. Your job is to have those bird's there for it! Only way it can get the bird is if you take it there. Put the bird's out to far and the dog start's grabbing them of flushing them out of gun range and that's where it will look for bird's. You want to cut the leg's off a pointing dog? Salt the field in close! Dogs, whatever their breed, will hunt where they learned to find bird's! It is the bird they are going to want.
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Wed May 01, 2019 4:53 am

DonF wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:41 am
Just a thought, been years since I've had Springer's so don't remember a lot. Obedience it seem's was #1 priority! You had to keep the dog in gun range. Then I don't recall ever working my dog's on panted bird's but over the years I've done a lot of them, just not flushing breed's. Seem's to me that you get obedience down well then salt a small field with bird's and simply go work obedience with the dog. Important to salt the field I would think, dog need's to figure out that you take it to the birds. For a good amount of time don't take the dog out of the field you salted, it could learn to run as you'd hope it wouldn't. It will hunt where it learned to find bird's. Your job is to have those bird's there for it! Only way it can get the bird is if you take it there. Put the bird's out to far and the dog start's grabbing them of flushing them out of gun range and that's where it will look for bird's. You want to cut the leg's off a pointing dog? Salt the field in close! Dogs, whatever their breed, will hunt where they learned to find bird's! It is the bird they are going to want.
Don, your intentions are honest and forthright, you are trying to help the lad with his dog but your information is really not helpful.
The OP needs to off his kiester and go train with field bred spaniel people in his area. and he lives in hot bed of spaniel activity. Now if developing a honest spaniel is just something the man wants and not a true passion, it does not matter what info is shared on line.
Training todays Springer or Cocker is so much more than obedience training, what ever the heck that is I have seen dozens of springer make hi levels of production and never spend any time at obedience training as i view Obedience training.
The little dog in my video never had any "obedience training" as such As she was never exposed to Retrieve training info such as Chris Akins She was trained in the the classical springer fashion which is "bird work and quartering exercises"
And i as well knew the Christensen's Janet more so than Doc competed against them on a few occasions.
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by DonF » Wed May 01, 2019 9:02 am

Maybe I shouldn't call it obedience training but I think it s. A flushing dog out of control won't get you many birds. What they will do is flush them out of range. Ya need to be able to stop the dog getting out to far and pull it back in. Dog need's to work with the handler much better than a pointing dog. The problem being the limited range of the shotgun! To be successful you need to be able to keep the dog in that range. Something I found with most bird dog breeds is the bird work generally take's pretty much care of itself. Guy's that train on wild bird's pretty much have proven that! Turn the dog loose and the wild bird will teach the dog how to handle it. As I recall every pup I ever had learned to like birds early on. Even my Stormy. He didn't care about pigeons till he was 11 mos old, I was amazed. But he did care about dicky birds. But without a handle the dog's become less than useful, obedience I call it. Standard obedience is normally seem as sit, down, here heel ect. Field obedience is about controlling the dog.
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by DonF » Wed May 01, 2019 9:14 am

gundogguy wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:53 am
DonF wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:41 am
Just a thought, been years since I've had Springer's so don't remember a lot. Obedience it seem's was #1 priority! You had to keep the dog in gun range. Then I don't recall ever working my dog's on panted bird's but over the years I've done a lot of them, just not flushing breed's. Seem's to me that you get obedience down well then salt a small field with bird's and simply go work obedience with the dog. Important to salt the field I would think, dog need's to figure out that you take it to the birds. For a good amount of time don't take the dog out of the field you salted, it could learn to run as you'd hope it wouldn't. It will hunt where it learned to find bird's. Your job is to have those bird's there for it! Only way it can get the bird is if you take it there. Put the bird's out to far and the dog start's grabbing them of flushing them out of gun range and that's where it will look for bird's. You want to cut the leg's off a pointing dog? Salt the field in close! Dogs, whatever their breed, will hunt where they learned to find bird's! It is the bird they are going to want.
Don, your intentions are honest and forthright, you are trying to help the lad with his dog but your information is really not helpful.
The OP needs to off his kiester and go train with field bred spaniel people in his area. and he lives in hot bed of spaniel activity. Now if developing a honest spaniel is just something the man wants and not a true passion, it does not matter what info is shared on line.
Training todays Springer or Cocker is so much more than obedience training, what ever the heck that is I have seen dozens of springer make hi levels of production and never spend any time at obedience training as i view Obedience training.
The little dog in my video never had any "obedience training" as such As she was never exposed to Retrieve training info such as Chris Akins She was trained in the the classical springer fashion which is "bird work and quartering exercises"
And i as well knew the Christensen's Janet more so than Doc competed against them on a few occasions.
Hal
You mentioned the Christensen's.Out on Sauvie's Island many years ago, I was out walking a brace where the handler carried a gun, don't recall what it was called. I was talking with Janet on the way back in and she was carrying a mod 21 Grand American. Couldn't help but ask about it, beautiful gun. Well she hated it! But she carried it because it was a gift from Chris! Short story about him too. He went out to run Flint and the gunner's puffed a bird over Flint Doc blew a gasket at them. He wanted the bird out farther before they shot it. Well next bird got out and we could see it fall about a good quarter mile away! Chris absolutely glared at the gunner's. One of them casually unloaded his gun, looked at Chris and asked if that was far enough! Chris never said a word. Just sent Flint and went over with him. God that was funny! Those that don't know Flint, two time Nat Ch. Doc was told he'd never make it because he was to big, he was big! But watching that dog in the field was a treat. The only dog I ever watched that made that kind of impression on me was my Stormy's mom, Breely.
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by polmaise » Wed May 01, 2019 1:47 pm

Perhaps many are confused on what they want a Springer to do . But hey ..they can do it if they are trained to do it . Millions of books and dvds and lines are sold every day .
A start point would be focus .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quiviZ7G15Q

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Thu May 02, 2019 4:42 am

DonF wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:14 am
gundogguy wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:53 am
DonF wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:41 am
Just a thought, been years since I've had Springer's so don't remember a lot. Obedience it seem's was #1 priority! You had to keep the dog in gun range. Then I don't recall ever working my dog's on panted bird's but over the years I've done a lot of them, just not flushing breed's. Seem's to me that you get obedience down well then salt a small field with bird's and simply go work obedience with the dog. Important to salt the field I would think, dog need's to figure out that you take it to the birds. For a good amount of time don't take the dog out of the field you salted, it could learn to run as you'd hope it wouldn't. It will hunt where it learned to find bird's. Your job is to have those bird's there for it! Only way it can get the bird is if you take it there. Put the bird's out to far and the dog start's grabbing them of flushing them out of gun range and that's where it will look for bird's. You want to cut the leg's off a pointing dog? Salt the field in close! Dogs, whatever their breed, will hunt where they learned to find bird's! It is the bird they are going to want.
Don, your intentions are honest and forthright, you are trying to help the lad with his dog but your information is really not helpful.
The OP needs to off his kiester and go train with field bred spaniel people in his area. and he lives in hot bed of spaniel activity. Now if developing a honest spaniel is just something the man wants and not a true passion, it does not matter what info is shared on line.
Training todays Springer or Cocker is so much more than obedience training, what ever the heck that is I have seen dozens of springer make hi levels of production and never spend any time at obedience training as i view Obedience training.
The little dog in my video never had any "obedience training" as such As she was never exposed to Retrieve training info such as Chris Akins She was trained in the the classical springer fashion which is "bird work and quartering exercises"
And i as well knew the Christensen's Janet more so than Doc competed against them on a few occasions.
Hal
You mentioned the Christensen's.Out on Sauvie's Island many years ago, I was out walking a brace where the handler carried a gun, don't recall what it was called. I was talking with Janet on the way back in and she was carrying a mod 21 Grand American. Couldn't help but ask about it, beautiful gun. Well she hated it! But she carried it because it was a gift from Chris! Short story about him too. He went out to run Flint and the gunner's puffed a bird over Flint Doc blew a gasket at them. He wanted the bird out farther before they shot it. Well next bird got out and we could see it fall about a good quarter mile away! Chris absolutely glared at the gunner's. One of them casually unloaded his gun, looked at Chris and asked if that was far enough! Chris never said a word. Just sent Flint and went over with him. God that was funny! Those that don't know Flint, two time Nat Ch. Doc was told he'd never make it because he was to big, he was big! But watching that dog in the field was a treat. The only dog I ever watched that made that kind of impression on me was my Stormy's mom, Breely.
Flint, OMG that was 1973 when Chris and Flint won the Nationals.You have a great memory.
Hal
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gunning » Thu May 02, 2019 5:11 am

Just wondering if anyone has good drills they doing with a pup to get them to start quartering? I was reading about a drill where you have two assistants shaking pigeons off to the side shaking them to get the dogs attention so you can get your dog to work back and forth between them at the same time introducing the pup to a whistle command get him to turn.. it sounds like a pretty good drill now I just have to get my hands on some pigeons which has been more of a struggle then I thought it would be.. any other quartering drills I could start doing if I’m just training solo without birds?


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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by birdshot » Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 pm

I got my first springer from David Jones. He used a ladder pattern mowed in his pasture for teaching side to side movement. He was kind enough to allow me to train my springer while he trained his string. The dogs tended to turn when they hit the mowed grass. Rolling a pigeon in close gives the dog incentive to hunt closer. I would not overdo throwing birds at your feet once you have your dog running a pattern you like. A dog needs to cover some ground ahead of you to get pheasant in the air.

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Fri May 03, 2019 4:27 am

gunning wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:11 am
Just wondering if anyone has good drills they doing with a pup to get them to start quartering? I was reading about a drill where you have two assistants shaking pigeons off to the side shaking them to get the dogs attention so you can get your dog to work back and forth between them at the same time introducing the pup to a whistle command get him to turn.. it sounds like a pretty good drill now I just have to get my hands on some pigeons which has been more of a struggle then I thought it would be.. any other quartering drills I could start doing if I’m just training solo without birds?


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Yup thats the American way! Pigeons can be a ........ that's why you look for a Minnesota spaniel club, they will have pigeons and helpers for bird work and quartering drills.
Here is a typical training sessions It's my turn to run my dog someone will ask "What does this dog need today?" I respond"She is a pup just started no gunfire i need two empty guns to post up with a dead pigeon a clip wing and a flyer" That's spanielieze, every one in the group knows what is needed for this pup at this time!
Stay away from the retriever stuff you been following teaching a pup to soon to mark can push them out and let them enjoy running straight lines there
are no straight lines in quartering.

Short vid Zeta's early bird work clip wing pigeons with "empty guns" teasing her back and forth across the handlers line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMPbxV1TnR8

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by DonF » Fri May 03, 2019 8:41 am

gundogguy wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:42 am
DonF wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:14 am
gundogguy wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:53 am


Don, your intentions are honest and forthright, you are trying to help the lad with his dog but your information is really not helpful.
The OP needs to off his kiester and go train with field bred spaniel people in his area. and he lives in hot bed of spaniel activity. Now if developing a honest spaniel is just something the man wants and not a true passion, it does not matter what info is shared on line.
Training todays Springer or Cocker is so much more than obedience training, what ever the heck that is I have seen dozens of springer make hi levels of production and never spend any time at obedience training as i view Obedience training.
The little dog in my video never had any "obedience training" as such As she was never exposed to Retrieve training info such as Chris Akins She was trained in the the classical springer fashion which is "bird work and quartering exercises"
And i as well knew the Christensen's Janet more so than Doc competed against them on a few occasions.
Hal
You mentioned the Christensen's.Out on Sauvie's Island many years ago, I was out walking a brace where the handler carried a gun, don't recall what it was called. I was talking with Janet on the way back in and she was carrying a mod 21 Grand American. Couldn't help but ask about it, beautiful gun. Well she hated it! But she carried it because it was a gift from Chris! Short story about him too. He went out to run Flint and the gunner's puffed a bird over Flint Doc blew a gasket at them. He wanted the bird out farther before they shot it. Well next bird got out and we could see it fall about a good quarter mile away! Chris absolutely glared at the gunner's. One of them casually unloaded his gun, looked at Chris and asked if that was far enough! Chris never said a word. Just sent Flint and went over with him. God that was funny! Those that don't know Flint, two time Nat Ch. Doc was told he'd never make it because he was to big, he was big! But watching that dog in the field was a treat. The only dog I ever watched that made that kind of impression on me was my Stormy's mom, Breely.
Flint, OMG that was 1973 when Chris and Flint won the Nationals.You have a great memory.
Hal
As I recall at that time he was also running Greenbriar Buckshot and Janet was running Misty Muffet. Those were some great days to get to watch those dog's, magnificent!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by Pedro » Fri May 03, 2019 9:38 am

Zeta looks like a nice, happy, bold pup. Loved the video.

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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by gundogguy » Fri May 03, 2019 11:31 am

Pedro wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:38 am
Zeta looks like a nice, happy, bold pup. Loved the video.
Yup! That video was of her very early in the starting process. she now an Open champ and Amateur Ch in the States and a Canadian Open Champ.
She turns 6 in July. She made Ch before she was 3. She entered 31 trials and place in 17, she was always very consistent. She has never broke on bird, never passed a bird and never failed a retrieve. She is a great lassie.
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Re: Getting Springer to hunt closer..

Post by polmaise » Fri May 03, 2019 6:44 pm

gunning wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:11 am
Just wondering if anyone has good drills they doing with a pup to get them to start quartering? I was reading about a drill where you have two assistants shaking pigeons off to the side shaking them to get the dogs attention so you can get your dog to work back and forth between them at the same time introducing the pup to a whistle command get him to turn.. it sounds like a pretty good drill now I just have to get my hands on some pigeons which has been more of a struggle then I thought it would be.. any other quartering drills I could start doing if I’m just training solo without birds?


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