GSP behavior - correct this or no?

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porochi
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Location: Kansas

GSP behavior - correct this or no?

Post by porochi » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:19 am

Now that it's off season I've been taking my 3yr old male GSP (who I've owned for about 18 mos.) on lots of long walks/runs at a nearby public wildlife area (7000+ acres). I usually turn him loose with the E-collar on and let him roam, it's good exercise for the both of us. Lately though he's managed to catch and kill several rabbits. He's a fast one. And there's a lot of rabbits around this year. I figured taking him to this area frequently for off-leash adventures will keep him sharp and in-shape for hunting season (and me too); I prefer going there instead of walks in the neighborhood or to the dog parks. Leashing him seems to defeat the purpose of taking him to a wildlife area in the first place. And I want to keep his prey drive sharp during off season but I think I'm turning him into a coyote. So I've been using the stim mode lately whenever he sniffs out a rabbit and starts hot pursuit, which is happening a lot, but he's so excited that I have to keep it at a high setting just to get his attention; he'll yelp when I nic him then he'll come back to me. But I'm wondering if we keep this up if it could be counterproductive and mess up his hunting skills come this fall, making him associate hunting with getting zapped and turn him into a reluctant hunter, or worse, a bootlicker. What do you suggest? Avoid taking him there, or just keep doing what I'm doing - controlling him w/ the E-collar, or let him hunt and run down rabbits?

shags
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Re: GSP behavior - correct this or no?

Post by shags » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:10 am

If you want to trash break him, then do it effectively and be done with it. Don't be just nagging him. To trash break, crank your collar up really high ( I use Level 6 continuous which is the highest setting on my ecollar), let him get into the chase, then light him up. Keep quiet - you want the dog to think that bunny shoots lighting bolts, you do not want him to associate the zap with you or your voice commands. When he comes back to you, stay upbeat, no sympathy, and go on your merry way as if nothing happened.

IME this is generally a once and done exercise, sometimes it might have to go to twice depending on the dog. My dogs continue to wear ecollars for a while after trashbreaking because after all, they're just dogs and who knows what goes through their little pea brains. After two or three proofs that the tb worked, I feel ok with not having to worry about it. Relapses have consequences though.

I haven't had anything negative result from trashbreaking aside from my one dog got a little bit sticky when we got to the "scene of the crime" for a couple of runs. I let him work through it and all was well.

Now, you don't have to trashbreak off rabbits if you don't want to, all this stuff depends on what we want/don't want with our dogs. Here at my house, I run my dogs on private property and don't often set birds out for them. We have no wild birds. So because hunting dogs want to hunt, my dogs will seek out rabbits and chase or point. But when we set out some birds, the dogs forget about bunnies for a while. Also, my dogs can be called off the bunnies. Thus, I haven't trashbroke (breaked?) off rabbits, but have on deer because chasing deer is dangerous. Different strokes and all that 8)

fishvik
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Re: GSP behavior - correct this or no?

Post by fishvik » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:29 am

First a couple of questions before I answer. 1. Do you want to hunt rabbits with this dog? 2. Are these cottontails and are they a game species in Kansas? If you don't want this dog to be a rabbit hunter, I'd be lighting this dog up when he hits a rabbit trail, much like snake breaking or breaking a dog from running deer. Neither of these breaking activity keeps a bird dog from hunting birds or diminishes their prey drive usually. You might even get a caged bunny and light him up when he shows interest in it. A 3 yo dog should not be doing this if you want to hunt just birds with it and his prey drive is probably hard wired in him at this point.

Second if these rabbits are game animals and you are letting your dog kill them out of season on a wildlife management area, it is unethical at best in my opinion and may be illegal. In either case I would find another place to run the dog until you break him of killing bunnies. I had a dog that pointed rabbits and was steady to flush and shot and would retrieve them. Lots of the continental breeds were bred to do that, including GSP's.

porochi
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Re: GSP behavior - correct this or no?

Post by porochi » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:05 pm

I do hunt rabbits from time to time and they're in-season in KS year round. We mainly upland hunt though. I don't rabbit hunt this time of year, though. There's no quail/pheasant on this particular wildlife area, we've covered much of it and haven't found any. He'll usually hold tight on birds, though I have caught him trying to creep in on them after a bit. We've hunted preserves a few times and several times he caught those pen-raised birds before they'll fly. I prefer to keep him on wild birds, but at this place, as it seems to be a rabbit haven, he's taken to hunting them. I like the tip on "trash breaking." I'll try that. I've been nicking him w/ the E-collar and calling him back to me, so he's probably associating me, the rabbits and the shock. I'll see if shags advice works with him. At least once or twice per outing at this place he'll sniff up a rabbit and when it runs, he's after it, and if that bunny can't find a hole or a log to get under quick he'll run it down. I'll hit him with the constant mode on high for a couple seconds, I have a Dogtra 2500 and it can knock him on his butt if I need it to.

shags
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Re: GSP behavior - correct this or no?

Post by shags » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:57 pm

Understand that in trashbreaking your dog on rabbits, he won't want anything to do with them any more. If you want him to hunt rabbits with you sometimes, don't trashbreak, it isn't fair to him. You'll have to work on an absolutely consistent recall or some other way to call him off the bunnies when hunting them isn't on your agenda.

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Urban_Redneck
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Re: GSP behavior - correct this or no?

Post by Urban_Redneck » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:54 am

Sounds like you are well on your way to having a first rate flushing dog. Nothing wrong with rabbits, just make him remain steady. Taking out preserve birds isn't the bird's fault, it's yours.

Allowing the dog to be successful at whatever he chooses, is all the reinforcement he needs.

My $0.02

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