For those that use clicker training

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Joe3232
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For those that use clicker training

Post by Joe3232 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:24 am

What am i supposed to do when the dog does not do exactly what I want?

For instance, if I give kennel command and the dog goes halfway in the kennel. Are you supposed to encourage the dog the rest of the way and then click and treat like they did it on their own? Or are you supposed to just ignore it?

Thanks

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Sharon
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by Sharon » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:37 pm

I grab the ... of the dog and say ,"Get your... in there now!" No treat.

(I used clicker trainer only in the house when the dog was very young. Not effective for everything.)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:14 pm

Sharon , I am sure there is a more accurate response available for clicker training ?
..Why not get in the kennel first and the dog will follow ? (I say) . But that is not enough for the Clicker trainer !
Try this ?
:)
‘Come’ is no harder to train than any other behaviour but in real life it has a huge number of criteria that have to be raised one at a time in order to guarantee success.

Often when puppies are brought home to their new owners this is the first time they have ever been separated from their dam and siblings and so they naturally attach themselves to their new family by following them about everywhere. Owners find this quite attractive and wrongly assume that this trait will continue into adolescence/adulthood, whatever the circumstances. A dangerous trap to fall into

At some point in time, usually from around 6 – 10 months, depending on the individual, “Velcro” dog will morph into “Bog off” dog (this is especially true of a breed that has been developed to exhibit a high degree of initiative). This is the time when owners suddenly realize that their dog will not recall when it sees another dog/person etc. Not only is this inconvenient but potentially dangerous as the dog could be at risk of injury from a car/train/another dog etc.

How and when do I start with a puppy?

My advice is to prepare for this inevitability from the day you take your puppy home. If you are lucky the breeder will have started this process whilst still in the nest by conditioning the puppies to a whistle blown immediately before putting the food bowl down during weaning.
Dogs learn by cause and effect ie sound of whistle = food. If you, the new owner, continue this from the moment your puppy arrives you will lay down strong foundations for the future.

By using the whistle in association with meals/food you need to establish the following criteria:
• Come from across the room.
• Come from out of sight
• Come no matter who calls
• Come even if you are busy doing something else
• Come even if you are asleep.
• Come even if you are playing with something/someone else
• Come even if you are eating

Once this goal has been realized in the house, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the garden.

Once this goal has been realized in the garden, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the park/field etc.

To train this, or any other behaviour:

1. Make it easy for the dog to get it right
2. Provide sufficient reward

Do not expect a dog to come away from distractions in the park until you have trained it to come to you in the park when no diversions are around. Be realistic and manage your expectations; your sphere of influence/control over your dog may be only 20m to begin with, therefore do not hazard a guess that the dog, at this level of training, will successfully recall from 50m or more away. Distance, like every other criterion, must be built up over time.

Some simple rules to follow when training the recall:

• Whistle/signal/call only once (why train the dog to deliberately ignore your first command?)
• Do not reinforce slow responses for the dog coming eventually after it has cocked its leg, sniffed the tree etc (you get what you train!)
• If you know that the dog will not come back to you in a certain situation, go and get him rather than risk teaching him that he can ignore you. (If you have followed the programme correctly you will never put your dog in a position to fail).
• Practise recalling the dog, putting him on the lead for a few seconds, reinforce with food/toy etc and immediately release the dog. Do this several times during a walk etc so that the dog does not associate a recall with going on the lead and ending the walk or being put on the lead with the cessation of fun.
• Eventually, when the behaviour is very strong, alternate rewards ie verbal praise, physical praise, food, toy and also vary the “value” of the rewards, sometimes a plain piece of biscuit, sometimes a piece of cooked liver etc so that you become a walking slot machine (and we all know how addictive gambling can be)!

In my experience recall training should be consistent and relentless for the first two years of a dog’s life before it can be considered truly dependable. You should look on it as a series of incremental steps, rather than a single simple behaviour, and something that will require lifelong maintenance.

What about an older or rescue dog?

Follow the same programme as outlined above however for recalcitrant dogs that have received little or no training, I would recommend dispensing with the food bowl and feeding a dog only during recalls to establish a strong behaviour quickly.

Your training should be over several sessions a day, which means you can avoid the risk of bloat. It is essential that the dog learns that there will be consequences for failure as well as success.

Divide the day’s food ration up into small bags (between10 – 30), if the dog recalls first time, it gets food, if it does not, you can make a big show of saying “too bad” and disposing of that portion of food (either throw it away or put aside for the next day).

Again, raise the criteria slowly as outlined in puppy training.

Hunger is very motivating!

For those of you who believe it unfair/unhealthy to deprive a dog of its full daily ration, not having a reliable recall is potentially life threatening for the dog ……………

How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/hare/deer?

Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your “helper” simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because it’s getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dog’s name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/hare however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!

Most people do not play with toys correctly and therefore the dog is not interested in them or, if it gets them, fails to bring it back to the owner.

Play the two ball game, once you have a dog ball crazy. Have two balls the same, throw one to the left, when the dog gets it, call him like crazy waving the next ball; as he comes back throw the other ball to the right and keep going left right so that YOU are the centre of the game and the dog gets conditioned to return to you for the toy. Once this behaviour is established you can then introduce the cues for out and then make control part of the game ie the game is contingent on the dog sitting and then progress to a sequence of behaviours.

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Sharon
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by Sharon » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:49 pm

Good grief! Looks like I provoked you into a really good answer. :P :D
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:41 pm

Sharon wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:49 pm
Good grief! Looks like I provoked you into a really good answer. :P :D
Yup !
".Why not get in the kennel first and the dog will follow ? (I say) . But that is not enough for the Clicker trainer ! "
:D

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Sharon
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by Sharon » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:30 pm

We are who we were in many ways. You have a 100 + more experience than I . I respect that.
I worked at the jail for 20 years. When I made a request , I expected a "Yes Ma'am." Same for my dogs - doesn't work for my husband though. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:15 pm

Good analogy Sharon , especially for the 'pupster' .. Poster.
.............
The kennel or cage , or even residence for some is an experience of being caged or pleasure ,how you convey that is dependant on how the one entering it perceives it present or past .
and ain't no clicker in the world can do that ... the process can however , it's the "bleep" application of it that gets some all finger licking google eyed at it ? ..meanwhile in Dog city ...or the 'Yard central, on release time' all the inmates ,are just killing time , doing time.
Till that dumb a** gives us something if ..I am stupid or hungry enough to do what I want anyway ? . lol
Sure makes lock up easier .. in the short term .

Joe3232
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by Joe3232 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:18 pm

Thank you for the thoughts

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:32 pm

You got my message then . :wink:

birds
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by birds » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:45 pm

"How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/hare/deer?

Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your “helper” simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because it’s getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dog’s name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/hare however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!"

Polmaise - Thanks - thats a good and reasonable option/answer to my simple question about deer chasing. Clarity is almost always a better start than emotion when you are dealing with a beginner :wink: :D

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Sharon
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:16 pm

EXcellent post!
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:22 pm

It would be an excellent result if the OP or any poster asking advice ,put in practice the advice given by excellent posts and a result from them were shown to have been beneficial . That would be Great.

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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by birds » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:41 pm

polmaise wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:22 pm
It would be an excellent result if the OP or any poster asking advice ,put in practice the advice given by excellent posts and a result from them were shown to have been beneficial . That would be Great.
Half a chance Polmaise! :wink:

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:59 pm

birds wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:41 pm
polmaise wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:22 pm
It would be an excellent result if the OP or any poster asking advice ,put in practice the advice given by excellent posts and a result from them were shown to have been beneficial . That would be Great.
Half a chance Polmaise! :wink:
It can be discouraging .The averages are not good .
:mrgreen: :roll:

polmaise
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Re: For those that use clicker training

Post by polmaise » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:33 pm

birds wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:45 pm

Polmaise - Thanks - thats a good and reasonable option/answer to my simple question about deer chasing. Clarity is almost always a better start than emotion when you are dealing with a beginner :wink: :D
Yea , Those that take that route require loads of script to get their head round it ? > or is it to convince others ? or just change it later when the money comes in ?.
..Meanwhile

https://totallygundogs.com/are-gundog-t ... -in-a-rut/

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