Puppy Update + Question

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Joe3232
Rank: Junior Hunter
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Puppy Update + Question

Post by Joe3232 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:16 pm

First off-

Wanted to thank all that have helped answer my questions on here over the last few months, while I have many to thank want to particularly thank birddogger2, shags, sharon for their patience and help with direct questions.

As an update on the dog, I am really enjoying working with the dog and learning about dog training. I have listened to advice and focused mainly on training. I think she is doing very well on heel and recall. Our woah needs some work but I am confident we will get there in short order. My plan is to keep her off birds until I can woah her 25-50 yards out in a field.

Dog is 10 months old, she is crazy about birds and seems to be mesmerized by birds in the yard and neighborhood. I guess this is normal for a bird dog? I am guessing she would be considered to have a strong natural point but I am still new at this. She comes from "all-age" breeding stock so I have some concern she may grow into a big runner but thus far I have been able to keep her 100 yards and in when we go on walks off leash.

My goal is to have the dog fully broke but would be happy to have her steady to shot for this upcoming fall season (dog will be 15 months old in sep 2020). I will be using her for hunting but may try a trial or two.

Also she is a house dog. Sleeps in crate next to the bed. Not sure if that matters or not in sending to be in a kennel for a month or two?

Questions:

1. How do I know if the dog is ready to be "broke". Seems like some posts I have read indicate 10 months is fine, others say let her hunt a season before this training?

2. I always planned to train the dog fully on my own both to build a bond with her and monetary reasons. In some reading I have done, I have learned that it might be less pressure on dog to put with a trainer that can work with her everyday? I will only be able to work with her on birds 1x a week (on weekend). Are there other things like this that I should consider in whether to hire a professional trainer or not?

Thanks and hope all are staying safe!

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Sharon
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Re: Puppy Update + Question

Post by Sharon » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:32 pm

1. There is no age for being "broke". It depends on the dog; every dog is different. For me, when the dog who has been chasing birds, figuring out he/she can't catch them , starts to hesitate /flash point, it is ready to be broke.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

shags
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Re: Puppy Update + Question

Post by shags » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:17 am

Try thinking in terms of developing your dog rather than breaking her. Or, the way a kid learns to read by starting out with "See Spot. See Spot run" and then over time moves up to War and Peace.

You'll have a plan, and the plan will will steps but it has no firm dates. Some dogs move along quickly and others take take longer. As with kids reading, think back to being in the Blue Birds group, Red Birds, Yellow birds. ( maybe these days they do Gifted Program vs Learning Disability, IDK). Same with dogs.

Doing birdwork once a week might not be a problem, but then again it could be. Be careful about trying to get too much done in one session thus pushing too hard. Sometimes a session lasts 5 minutes. Are you able to to stop while you're ahead or will you feel a need to "take advantage" of your only training time?

Hiring a trainer has its advantages. Trainers have time, facilities, and equipment that many of us don't have. They have the experience to know how to handle dogs' quirks. They don't get as emotionally involved as we can do, which allows them to not get stuck on some issues. Writing a check and getting an update every week may not be as satisfying as doing the work yourself, but the end result is a trained dog. When I started out, training was hands on and there wasn't all the equipment that we take for granted today - for instance, ecollars had two maybe three settings - off, and on or maybe off, high, low. So our investment was basically a flat collar and a checkcord. These days we can buy thousands of dollars worth of stuff to help us train. It might be cheaper to invest in a couple months with a pro than to buy a bunch of electronics that you might not have use for again.

If you go with a pro, do some investigative work first. Talk to them, watch them and their dogs, and get recommendations. Trainers aren't one size fits all. Your breeder might be able to give you a name; sometimes guys who raise game birds know trainers; contacts in a local breed club might give you a name. If you decide on hiring a trainer, I'd plan for about 2 months. Some dogs take a while to settle in and get with the program.

Edited to add...BIRDS obtaining and keeping is another consideration for DYI vs hiring a pro.
Birds can be a big expense and a major hassle to find or keep.

birddogger2
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Re: Puppy Update + Question

Post by birddogger2 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:51 am

Joe -

As has been said, when the dog is actively searching for game and hesitates before engaging in chase, it is sending a message.

One of the reasons I do heel/whoa drills from the time a pup is 4 months old is to "encourage" that "hesitation". The pup, some times, will go to the stopped position because that has become his default response. Now, understand that some do some don't.

As mentioned, it kinda depends on the individual dog and their response. I have had dogs steady to wing and shot at 10 months old and some that were not fully steady at three years, using the same training methodology. Some of it is me, some is the dog. The more I put into the training at the early stages, the faster the pup seemed to come along. Actually I think a lot of it is me anymore. The pups have not slowed down, but I sure have.

Conventional wisdom is that for competitive dogs, the window for getting a dog steady to wing and shot is somewhere between 12 and 18 moths of age.
With competitive dogs and pro trainers, if the dog does not "get with the program" by the time it is 2 or so, it usually gets sent home, not because it is a bad dog or untrainable or anything like that, but because there is a time window for trial dogs.

It is just that a competitive dog has to start winning and by the time it is 2 it needs to be steady to be competitive... if it is not, the pro is wasting their time running the dog in trials and the owner is wasting their money in entry and handling fees.

RayG

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