Training to range closer with an e collar.

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nategsp
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Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by nategsp » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:03 am

Good day, I have a gsp that tends to want to range farther than I would like.. he is collar conditioned and I do use it for recall (beep function) to bring him back closer To me to hunt.
My question is how would one go about training using the e collar to range closer to me. Without having to recall all the time. I am cautious using the e collar while hunting to not Screw him up. But I know he has a solid foundation and I think I am a little to soft on him at times.

Thanks.

Nate

cjhills
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by cjhills » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:58 am

Nate:
Not being concerned much about range, I lean more toward letting the dog learn to hunt at his natural range.
If the dog knows how to handle birds range makes little difference. If he busts birds at 50 yards or 200 yards makes no difference. you don't get a shot.
If he handles the birds you do.....Cj

nategsp
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by nategsp » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm

If that was the case his natural range is probably 1/2 a mile. Lol he would if I let him. but in my case I would just like him to hunt a little closer with regards to roads etc. We have small patches to hunt not miles. it just suits my kind of hunting.

birddogger2
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by birddogger2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:06 pm

Nategsp -

I tend to agree pretty much with everything cJ has just said. I also believe that a bird dog's job is to go and find birds and then to point them and hold them until I get there...however long that may take. THAT is what a bird dog should do.

I do however understand that a half mile is a bit much in a forty acre piece of cover. In many places I hunt, that is too close to a road. That is why I install a solid...non-negotiable WHOA in all of my dog, before they even hit the field. They gotta stop and grow roots when I holler WHOA. Period.

A couple of suggestions:

1) In relatively open country, cut the dog loose and walk slowly. When the dog gets out to about as far out as you want it, execute a right or left turn and tap the e-collar (at a low setting, 1 or 2), If the dog does not turn to go with you...tap, tap, tap until it turns. Soon after it comes across you, turn back to your original line of march. The dog should swing again to regain the front. If it does not....wait until it comes back around and send it out again. If you consistently cue the dog to turn when it is at a uniform distance from you, in similar cover... the dog will eventually begin to anticipate and turn on its own to avoid the stim.

This technique is often called "bending" and there are plenty of posts and instructions on how to go about it. Flushing dog trainers train their dogs to go back and forth in front of them, in windshield wiper fashion using this type of training. I actually start teaching the dog to turn on command in the yard and using dog treats and a long checkcord, teach it to go down a line of treats, then to turn, on command and go forward to the next line and go back the line up sniffing out the treats. A hungry dog makes a good student for this. If I can do this with a field trial bred pointer, you can do it with a shorthair. It is actually kinda fun.

2) In heavy cover...pull the dog in and keep it in. Encourage the dog to hunt, but make it hunt close. Change direction also, to make the dog pay attention to where you are and where you are headed.


If you do this consistently, the dog will learn to suck it in when the cover gets thick and stretch it out when the cover opens up. It will also take its cues from you and where you are headed. That also means the dog is keeping one eye on you, which is exactly what you want.

This will not happen overnight and not even soon, but with patience and persistence, the dog will learn to hunt with you and for you. You will learn to work with each other and trust each other. That is a real team and it is a beautiful thing to be a part of.

RayG

nategsp
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by nategsp » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:54 pm

Thanks for the feed back. Appreciate it.
I do agree with a pointer being able to hunt and that’s still the main purpose. I would just like to have him know his distance in certain areas. He is a big running dog, but I do like to watch them go on point in front of me. Pretty exciting stuff

Thanks again

birddogger2
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by birddogger2 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:09 pm

Nategsp -

I agree it is exciting to watch. But I got one better for ya.

Your dog goes up and over the rise, out of your sight. You quicken your walk a bit. The dog has not come back to you. That knot in the pit of your stomach is getting tight. Then when you top that rise, you spot your dog standing tall. Your dog is ten yards down the back side, locked up tight as a tick...just waiting for you.

It don't get a whole lot better than that for a pointing dog person.

But you can't ever have that experience until you can let the dog go up and over that hill. You gotta trust the dog to hold that bird for you and the dog has to trust that you will get there. Teamwork.

Keep working with your dog, keep giving him opportunities to trust you and, when the dog earns it, give him the trust he has earned in terms of independence. It will happen.

RayG

Steve007
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by Steve007 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:37 pm

Visit Amazon and take a look at a book by Jerome Robinson entitled "The Ultimate Guide to Bird Dog Training: A Realistic Approach to Training Close-Working Gun Dogs for Tight Cover Conditions ".

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bonasa
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by bonasa » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:23 am

You could hack at him by voice or with the collar beep but that will erode the bird finding ability. Hunt smaller areas and constantly switch directions by bringing him around or he feeds off the direction by looking at you and seeing you move the other way. Hunt areas with MORE birds or follow up on singles after covey rises.

I'd say if the dog is broke, turn him loose and listen for the bell to stop then kill bird after bird. However upon reading your previous posts and mentioning huns, I take it you are in the high desert or prairie. Whatever the case may be, strap a tracker to him and turn him loose then listen for the chimes of POINT and worry about plucking all those birds.

weimdogman
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Re: Training to range closer with an e collar.

Post by weimdogman » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:24 pm

I pheasant hunt mostly small pieces of ground so I know what you are trying to accomplish. I use the tone feature to get the dogs attention and then hand signals for changing direction.

I think of the tone as similar to calling the dogs by name to get their attention prior to a command like-
Spot here.

Dogs can run big when I let them and are held close when it is warranted. Dogs do learn to keep track of me as they know I give directions. To be highly successful with this direct dogs into planted birds.

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