5 month old GSP with biting problems
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calinkeeks
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5 month old GSP with biting problems
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Last edited by calinkeeks on Mon May 23, 2022 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
This behaviour is common in puppies , but now at 5 months you have a problem. Normally ,as a puppy the owner should stop that behaviour quickly with some painful grips to the mouth , just as Mom would do, and it would be over. However, now at 5 months you have to be the big bad guy. I don't want you to get bit, so you'll have to decide, but I would grab -a - hold of that dog's mouth and let him know you are the boss and it's over. You and your partner have to deal out the same firm , consistent rebuke. Being put back in the crate atfer the rebuke would also be a good idea.
I rescue Jack Russell Terriers. OFTEN by the time I get them they are exhibiting the same behaviours as your dog. What I have laid out works for me. Sometimes though ,I wear a heavy work glove with the more aggressive /older ones.
Daily ,robust exercise outside (running off leash if possible) is essential. You've got yourself a super energetic gun dog.)
(Welcome to the forum.
)
I rescue Jack Russell Terriers. OFTEN by the time I get them they are exhibiting the same behaviours as your dog. What I have laid out works for me. Sometimes though ,I wear a heavy work glove with the more aggressive /older ones.
Daily ,robust exercise outside (running off leash if possible) is essential. You've got yourself a super energetic gun dog.)
(Welcome to the forum.
)" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Can't bite if it's running grandpa said.
Can't bite if it knows sit or stay or any other obedience things the owner thinks is obedience grandpa said.
Can't bite if it knows sit or stay or any other obedience things the owner thinks is obedience grandpa said.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Do you think this means she is still trying to exert dominance and does not respect the leaders of the pack?
In her mind, she *is* the leader of the pack. She bites, you give a weak little objection to it, then give her a toy.
And now she's a liability to your family. Even a play bite that breaks the skin can be trouble for you.
You need to come down really hard on her. Scruff her, lay her on her back or side and hold her down by the scruff until she submits. Don't have the mindset of "this hurts me more than it hurts you", you need to be po'ed and firm but not angry and over emotional. She might test you and make you do this a second time, but if you're firm enough that should do it.
Good luck, she doesn't sound like a bad dog or one with a screw loose.
In her mind, she *is* the leader of the pack. She bites, you give a weak little objection to it, then give her a toy.
And now she's a liability to your family. Even a play bite that breaks the skin can be trouble for you.
You need to come down really hard on her. Scruff her, lay her on her back or side and hold her down by the scruff until she submits. Don't have the mindset of "this hurts me more than it hurts you", you need to be po'ed and firm but not angry and over emotional. She might test you and make you do this a second time, but if you're firm enough that should do it.
Good luck, she doesn't sound like a bad dog or one with a screw loose.
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Update
Last edited by calinkeeks on Mon May 23, 2022 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Well done !! 
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
You need to come down really hard on her. Scruff her, lay her on her back or side and hold her down by the scruff until she submits.
What do you mean by scruff her up? We have pinned her down and held her mouth shut until she stops resistibg....and were not nice about it. I guess not harsh enough?
What do you mean by scruff her up? We have pinned her down and held her mouth shut until she stops resistibg....and were not nice about it. I guess not harsh enough?
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Grab the skin on the back of her neck and force her head to the floor. If she doesn't flop the rest of herself down, use your other hand to get her down. Hold her there until she submits.
I don't do this on baby puppies, because they don't need that much dominance. But an older pup or grown dog sometimes doesn't respond to gentler reprimands.
If you watch dogs doing dominance displays between themselves, you see the top dog bite the lesser dog along the side or top of its neck. The subordinate dog goes down, belly up and submits. The dominant dog moves away once the subordinate shows submission.
When there's a human-dog disagreement about who is boss, the dog will sometimes fight this. Then you know your dog has that dominant streak. It isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO. But you have to have in your mind that *you* are top dog and be willing to prove it. There are dogs that aren't actually dominant, but who get a little full of themselves. Those dogs IME don't argue much with the scruffing.
When you're in a position that requires submission on the dog's part, watch for subtle clues. Ears moving slightly back, losing eye contact, a swallow, or a lip lick are among "words" in the dog's vocabulary that say "OK, I'm ready to give up the attitude"
For that kind of nipping and play biting, I believe it's more productive to give one or two big corrections and get it over with. Nagging with small corrections either encourages escalation or doesn't eliminate the unwanted behavior. Ya gotta be like the mother dog...come down hard and swift and be done with it.
I'll qualify all this ^^^ with the caveat that it's for a dog that hasn't learned better as a little puppy, or one that's too full of itself. For a truly aggressive or fear biting dog, this probably wouldn't be as effective as other methods.
I don't do this on baby puppies, because they don't need that much dominance. But an older pup or grown dog sometimes doesn't respond to gentler reprimands.
If you watch dogs doing dominance displays between themselves, you see the top dog bite the lesser dog along the side or top of its neck. The subordinate dog goes down, belly up and submits. The dominant dog moves away once the subordinate shows submission.
When there's a human-dog disagreement about who is boss, the dog will sometimes fight this. Then you know your dog has that dominant streak. It isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO. But you have to have in your mind that *you* are top dog and be willing to prove it. There are dogs that aren't actually dominant, but who get a little full of themselves. Those dogs IME don't argue much with the scruffing.
When you're in a position that requires submission on the dog's part, watch for subtle clues. Ears moving slightly back, losing eye contact, a swallow, or a lip lick are among "words" in the dog's vocabulary that say "OK, I'm ready to give up the attitude"
For that kind of nipping and play biting, I believe it's more productive to give one or two big corrections and get it over with. Nagging with small corrections either encourages escalation or doesn't eliminate the unwanted behavior. Ya gotta be like the mother dog...come down hard and swift and be done with it.
I'll qualify all this ^^^ with the caveat that it's for a dog that hasn't learned better as a little puppy, or one that's too full of itself. For a truly aggressive or fear biting dog, this probably wouldn't be as effective as other methods.
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Update
Last edited by calinkeeks on Mon May 23, 2022 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
She's been getting away with bad behaviour for 5 months ; it is not going to correct itself in a week. I'd be VERY hesitant about using the e collar. If you do , make sure the timing of the correction is timed perfectly and have a partner correct from a distance so the dog doesn't think it coming from the person it is growling at. jmo - Is she getting enough good hard running exercise?
PS
" threw her down on the concrete " not a good idea imo.
PS
" threw her down on the concrete " not a good idea imo.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
I wouldn't use the ecollar for this problem. You'd be taking a chance of your dog directing aggression toward whoever is nearest her.
Frankly it sounds like your dog was allowed to misbehave because as a baby puppy it was funny and cute. And now it isn't. If I'm not correct, I apologize for the assumption.
What leads up to these biting/nipping incidents? Is she wound up and excited, wanting to play? Are you allowing that or worse, encouraging it? IME dogs don't go from 0 to Out of Control Play without some kind of input from their handlers. That could be baby talk, high pitched voice, clapping, bowing, etc. At any rate, it would help if you would establish boundaries as far as rough housing and rowdy behavior. Playing with a dog can be fun with rules...in your case you'd probably enjoy it more without worrying about getting bitten.
When she starts in with the hyper behavior, nip it in the bud. Don't allow it for now because she has no idea how to control herself. When you see her even just beginning to get excited, give her a command like "knock it off!" or "Enough!" and make her stop. If she just comes randomly running into the room and goes for you, step into her and give the command. If she knows a command like Whoa or Sit, make her do it. If you're lucky she'll be surprised enough at your new behavior to stop. If not, scruff her again...and be serious about it. Why would a human growl at a dog in the first place. Humans use words. "Knock it off!" "Enough!" are commands...growling is not.
When you're interacting with your dog put your head in the right place and remember that *you* are the grown up, *you* are the leader, *you* are the one that's large and in charge. Don't project that you're a fun littermate, a subordinate, or just an insecure person who isn't really sure you're doing this correctly. Playtime can still be fun and your and the pup can be buddies, but it should always be on your terms.
No dog teeth on people skin ever, never, nope.
Frankly it sounds like your dog was allowed to misbehave because as a baby puppy it was funny and cute. And now it isn't. If I'm not correct, I apologize for the assumption.
What leads up to these biting/nipping incidents? Is she wound up and excited, wanting to play? Are you allowing that or worse, encouraging it? IME dogs don't go from 0 to Out of Control Play without some kind of input from their handlers. That could be baby talk, high pitched voice, clapping, bowing, etc. At any rate, it would help if you would establish boundaries as far as rough housing and rowdy behavior. Playing with a dog can be fun with rules...in your case you'd probably enjoy it more without worrying about getting bitten.
When she starts in with the hyper behavior, nip it in the bud. Don't allow it for now because she has no idea how to control herself. When you see her even just beginning to get excited, give her a command like "knock it off!" or "Enough!" and make her stop. If she just comes randomly running into the room and goes for you, step into her and give the command. If she knows a command like Whoa or Sit, make her do it. If you're lucky she'll be surprised enough at your new behavior to stop. If not, scruff her again...and be serious about it. Why would a human growl at a dog in the first place. Humans use words. "Knock it off!" "Enough!" are commands...growling is not.
When you're interacting with your dog put your head in the right place and remember that *you* are the grown up, *you* are the leader, *you* are the one that's large and in charge. Don't project that you're a fun littermate, a subordinate, or just an insecure person who isn't really sure you're doing this correctly. Playtime can still be fun and your and the pup can be buddies, but it should always be on your terms.
No dog teeth on people skin ever, never, nope.
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Upsate
Last edited by calinkeeks on Mon May 23, 2022 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
We have been correcting the biting since day 1. We don’t encourage it at all.... unless I am doing something I am unaware of that is winding her up.shags wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:16 pm
Frankly it sounds like your dog was allowed to misbehave because as a baby puppy it was funny and cute. And now it isn't. If I'm not correct, I apologize for the assumption.
What leads up to these biting/nipping incidents? Is she wound up and excited, wanting to play? Are you allowing that or worse, encouraging it? IME dogs don't go from 0 to Out of Control Play without some kind of input from their handlers.
The nipping/biting starts the second she decides she wants to play. She goes from a couch potato to a gremlin in the blink of an eye. As soon as we take her out back, she hits the ground running.....charges us and jumps and nips/bites.
Looking back on it, I am wondering if she got taken away from the mom too soon. When we picked her up she was 8 weeks old. The mom was in a big pen outside away from the puppies and the breeder said the mom was “done with them”. I don’t know how much time they spent with her to be honest.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
................................................................................calinkeeks wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:39 amThat sounded horrible and should have explained better. She put her teeth on my wrist and we were on concrete entry way to the house. I immediately grabbed her by the skin of her neck and “scruffed her up” as suggested by the entire internet and everyone on here. I felt bad but we weren’t in the grass anymore so it just had to happen there. I didn’t want to slam her head in the concrete so I held it up a little but the rest of her body flopped down. Trust me, I would never mistreat the dog...it was hard enough getting used to doing these tough corrections!
Got it. I knew you were a good man.
PS
Most pups are sold at 7/8 weeks so that isn't it.(In reference to your earlier post.)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Sharon:
Just because the puppies are sold at 7 to 8 weeks does not mean they are with the mother dog until then. Puppies are very hard on the mother dog when the get over about 6 weeks. They get very little from her and cause a lot of stress. I pretty much dry the mother up at 6 weeks and let her visit with them a couple times a day. She will regurgitate food for them and will discipline them if they try to suck.
If this is true aggression you have a serious problem and should probably consult a pro.
If it is play you need to do what it takes to stop it immediately and as harshly as it takes. Then you need to forget it and go forward. Don't pick at her. Make sure she knows she is being punished. It would be best If she yelps and Sulks for a bit.
Canine packs have a pecking order. You want to beat the top. Just remember mother nature is not kind all the time. I will guarantee you most people on here would cure that issue in a day or two......cj
Just because the puppies are sold at 7 to 8 weeks does not mean they are with the mother dog until then. Puppies are very hard on the mother dog when the get over about 6 weeks. They get very little from her and cause a lot of stress. I pretty much dry the mother up at 6 weeks and let her visit with them a couple times a day. She will regurgitate food for them and will discipline them if they try to suck.
If this is true aggression you have a serious problem and should probably consult a pro.
If it is play you need to do what it takes to stop it immediately and as harshly as it takes. Then you need to forget it and go forward. Don't pick at her. Make sure she knows she is being punished. It would be best If she yelps and Sulks for a bit.
Canine packs have a pecking order. You want to beat the top. Just remember mother nature is not kind all the time. I will guarantee you most people on here would cure that issue in a day or two......cj
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
cjhills wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:38 pmSharon:
Just because the puppies are sold at 7 to 8 weeks does not mean they are with the mother dog until then. Puppies are very hard on the mother dog when the get over about 6 weeks. They get very little from her and cause a lot of stress. I pretty much dry the mother up at 6 weeks and let her visit with them a couple times a day. She will regurgitate food for them and will discipline them if they try to suck.
If this is true aggression you have a serious problem and should probably consult a pro.
If it is play you need to do what it takes to stop it immediately and as harshly as it takes. Then you need to forget it and go forward. Don't pick at her. Make sure she knows she is being punished. It would be best If she yelps and Sulks for a bit.
Canine packs have a pecking order. You want to beat the top. Just remember mother nature is not kind all the time. I will guarantee you most people on here would cure that issue in a day or two......cj
I am at a loss here. I have held her down with her mouth shut until she whimpers and eventually submits. My boyfriend does the same. She is just persistent and hard headed as heck. She is 21 weeks now and still zero improvement on deterring the biting/nipping and jumping. The episodes are less frequent but they should be eliminated and I am worried she will grow into this behavior. She knocked down a toddler the other day...luckily he is tough and our friends were not upset but that is not ok. Not to mention, it is unpleasant to be around in general.
She has also been crate trained since we brought her home. There were a few times we let her sleep in the bed but that was long ago. She never had any problems with the crate until the last week or so. She throws a fit when she is put in there for bedtime, eventually calms down after 20-30 min, then whines again in the wee hours of the morning. We do not take her out of the crate until she stops. It seems like she is trying to dominate everything. Not cool and very exhausting.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
I've read all your posts again and the efforts you've made.
Maybe it is time to work with a pro. Post your State and ask for referrals. Members will give you good referrals. I'm in Ontario so can't help. Even one visit may help you know if it is your training techniques or the dog's breeding.
Maybe it is time to work with a pro. Post your State and ask for referrals. Members will give you good referrals. I'm in Ontario so can't help. Even one visit may help you know if it is your training techniques or the dog's breeding.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
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calinkeeks
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Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
Copy. Thanks Sharon.Sharon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:57 pmI've read all your posts again and the efforts you've made.
Maybe it is time to work with a pro. Post your State and ask for referrals. Members will give you good referrals. I'm in Ontario so can't help. Even one visit may help you know if it is your training techniques or the dog's breeding.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
calinkeeks:
This is a very interesting issue to me. I deal with dogs like this occasionally. It would be really good if we could see how this dog acts. Could you post a video or even a few photos. Or maybe if you Pm me, I could set you up to email me a video.
I think you may be sending her the wrong message. There are signs you need to be aware of that people who spend their life with dogs just seem to know.
Don't let her go through doors ahead of you. Don't let her put her foot on yours even if it looks like and accident. When you come home do not act all happy and excited to see her. Just act calm and do a few other things. Then invite her to come to you. Maybe have a treat she likes and give it to her if she is calm. Try to act aloof and like you are superior. I don't know if this was addressed, but make sure she is getting enough exercise.
Don't train all the time let her have time to be a dog. But be aware you are always training. Dogs have a long memory and retain what they learn bad or good
When she jumps push her hard with your knee or foot. Do not feel guilty about discipline. Do what it takes and then all is forgiven.
Occasionally when you are just hanging out lock eyes with her and stare her down. You need to win this the stare down so be prepared to take a while at first.
A word about hiring a pro. Be very careful to try to make sure they are who they say they are.
It is not as hard as it seems right now.........Cj
PS. Maybe a consultation with the breeder might help. They generally know their dogs best.
This is a very interesting issue to me. I deal with dogs like this occasionally. It would be really good if we could see how this dog acts. Could you post a video or even a few photos. Or maybe if you Pm me, I could set you up to email me a video.
I think you may be sending her the wrong message. There are signs you need to be aware of that people who spend their life with dogs just seem to know.
Don't let her go through doors ahead of you. Don't let her put her foot on yours even if it looks like and accident. When you come home do not act all happy and excited to see her. Just act calm and do a few other things. Then invite her to come to you. Maybe have a treat she likes and give it to her if she is calm. Try to act aloof and like you are superior. I don't know if this was addressed, but make sure she is getting enough exercise.
Don't train all the time let her have time to be a dog. But be aware you are always training. Dogs have a long memory and retain what they learn bad or good
When she jumps push her hard with your knee or foot. Do not feel guilty about discipline. Do what it takes and then all is forgiven.
Occasionally when you are just hanging out lock eyes with her and stare her down. You need to win this the stare down so be prepared to take a while at first.
A word about hiring a pro. Be very careful to try to make sure they are who they say they are.
It is not as hard as it seems right now.........Cj
PS. Maybe a consultation with the breeder might help. They generally know their dogs best.
Re: 5 month old GSP with biting problems
A session with a pro who specializes in biting behaviour is going to be very helpful for you. Another thing to try is increasing her amount of exercise. I haven't seen you mention how many miles a day this pup is getting in the field, or doing bird work, or water work. Polmaise made a good point when he passed on grandpa's comment that the pup can't bite when it's running. A tired puppy is a happy puppy, and I bet she never gets tired enough to just quit horsing around. Keep in mind, you bought a bird dog who is made to run for a living.