Gun Dog Forum

Hey guys, newly signed up to the forum but have gained an enormous amount of information by looking through old posts over the past few months.
There a couple of things that I am running into that I would like to have some input on, and I feel they both stem from the same problem.
One thing that I am running into that I have not been able to find any information on is a dog not obeying commands from someone other than myself. I have a 6 month old Boykin named Addie, and so far I could not ask for a better training experience with her. We have worked through basic obedience pretty thoroughly and she has been collar conditioned to all basic commands such as here, sit, kennel (place command), ect. I chose not to teach the stay command with her. One thing that I am running into lately is that she will not obey commands from others like she will from me. She is still very well mannered and does not act up, just does not want to listen to commands. For example, my girlfriend routinely gets to play "bird-boy" when we are training so she has seen how I expect Addie to act. The problem arises if she gives Addie a command such as sit, it is almost as if Addie challenges her and just stands there. I can then repeat the command and she sits immediately. I've tried to remedy this by not repeating the command and, and just nick her on the collar after my girlfriend gives her a command and then she complies. Now this is what I want, but I rarely have to use stimulation to get compliance for a command from myself. I guess I am wondering where the disconnect is here? It is quite possible I am thinking to much into this and with a nick every time someone else gives a command, the problem will work itself out.
My second thing that is happening that kind of falls into the same ballpark, is her recall to others. Like the situation above, I can say here and Addie will almost always do a 180 at a dead sprint to come to a heel position at my side; if she is distracted she gets a nick and this always gets her coming. When others call her, she may smell some flowers or chase a chipmunk a few yards before she decides to come. We worked on this through basic OB with teaching the command, then adding a check cord on leash, to prong collar and check cord, to overlaying the e-collar with prong collar, to finally off lead e-collar. I know that she understands the command and knows how to turn off the pressure, but sometimes if someone else gives her the here command, she does not obey, I nick her, and she will sit. Where if I call her and have to nick her (which is rarely) she will put it in another gear towards my direction.
I know the above post is a lot, but this is me doing my best to fully explain what is happening and my attempts to remedy the problem. I guess what it all boils down to is that her basic obedience towards me is top notch, but towards others it is lacking and I'm looking for advice on how to fix it.

Dogs rarely see everyone as equal, just as they do not perceive all situations and locations the same. Just as they need to be taught that the rules they learned in one location apply to all locations, they need to be taught that their response to one person needs to apply to all persons. This can be tough to do if all people do not have the same relationship to the dog. Persistence and consistency are the keys.

We had the same situation with my (our) dogs and the Old Ball and Chain. The answer was for me to butt out and he gave the command which was generally ignored, and then he made the correction. Sometimes I made myself scarce while he trained, other times I just sat there quiet and let him take care it

It was as if the dogs thought the chain of command was 1) The Queen B, 2) them, then 3) That Guy. Then their lightbulbs came on and places 2 and 3 switched. Negotiations ongoing between me and the OBaC for places 1 and 2

My dogs obey my wife and I. I don't want anyone else giving commands or attempting to discipline.

mask wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:04 pm

My dogs obey my wife and I. I don't want anyone else giving commands or attempting to discipline.

A dog should be subservient to and responsive to every member of a given household from the adults down through the youngest child. However, I do agree that is where the compulsory obedience should end.

Of course they need to be good citizens when in with others, such as loose in the yard with guests, etc. BUT...

I also do not want my dogs obeying someone else.

RayG

I've had a few situations where having a dog obey a stranger paid off. Or maybe it was because the dogs just knew what to do all by themselves anyway, I don't know.

I've gotten behind my bracemate at trials, having had birdwork and my dog caught the front well before I could. And he either landed in a backing situation, or went on point right there by the front group. Both times judges asked someone the dog didn't know from Adam to handle in my stead, and it worked out well for Team Shags. Another time I was the one asked to handle a dog on point when the handler was waaaay back behind us. That worked out fine too ( dog got a placement no doubt because of my awesome handling abilities :roll: )

Sometimes young dogs get back to the parking lot ahead of the handler, and it helps if they come to someone there instead of running crazy.

I wouldn't mind so much if my dog obeyed my trainer over me, but other than that besides the trials situations, he better mind me before some unknown ya-hoo.

I've never heard of such a thing. Wow. Someone always came running back to me to tell me to get my bum in gear as my dog was on point. I wouldn't like someone else being asked to handle my dog ....... sorry to go off topic.

Sharon wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:42 pm

I've never heard of such a thing. Wow. Someone always came running back to me to tell me to get my bum in gear as my dog was on point. I wouldn't like someone else being asked to handle my dog ....... sorry to go off topic.

It's much better than the alternative. I had one of those occurrences where my dog (same one in previous post) backed his bracemate while we were coming up. The other handler flushed and fired, and collared their dog off, and went on. My dog went on too, just as we came over the ridge. The front judge, bless his heart, told me to pick up my dog because he released himself.

A temporary handler would have prevented that.

Hijack over, I promise!

FWIW-

My dogs are primarily hunting and field trial dogs and live in kennels. They are NOT house dogs in any way shape or form. That is NOT what I want. They do not run loose without direct supervision ..not ever. Not even in the fenced in back yard. As far as behavior is concerned, they MUST be respectful of my grandkids. I do not want them knocked around by a rambunctious dog. I don't often have visitors with the dogs out in the yard, but when I do, I or my wife are there and yes, the dogs must behave or they get kenneled up.

I actually condition my dogs to ignore the commands, calls, signals from another handler, because if they are paying attention to someone else out on course, they are NOT paying attention to me. In the hunting fields, my dogs range out and if they listen to another hunter, they might well end up getting stolen.

I guess I do it a bit different than some, but as I said, my dogs are primarily hunting and field trial dogs and have to earn and grow into the role of family pet. Most of my dogs eventually mellow out and are pretty good around folks, but some do not. If they are good around my family, but really do not want much to do with the rest of the human race...I'm OK with that.

Some of my very best dogs cared deeply about their adopted family but really could care less about most of the rest of the world. A couple have been downright protective of one or another family member, but somewhat aloof to most others.

RayG

I don't particularly want my dogs obeying other people.

However, in your case, OP, because this is your girlfriend and not a stranger, all you have to do is stop expecting the dog to mind her out of the blue and go back to basics and have the girlfriend train the dog from step one to obey her for simple commands. She can teach the dog to sit and come on her command, but the dog isn't going to learn it from you zapping the dog with the collar. The dog and the girlfriend must establish their own relationship.

And off topic, my son's dog doesn't really mind me. He feels that his job is to protect me, and that he knows better than I do, so I give a command and the dog thinks about it and decides whether or not what I ask is the best thing for me, and then he does it. We get a fraction of a second time lag before he does what I ask. And my dog obeys my son in a sort of wonky not-very-precise way. She does what she is told but not quickly or snappily enough to make him happy with her response. He calls her and she is just as likely to run to me as to go to him.