17 week old PP lack of point

[Bigjay1994]

Basically the title. I have a 17 week old PP that hasn’t really pointed birds at all. I have been working with folks at my NAVHDA chapter and they say not to worry and I try not to, but I’m worried haha

In addition, I have done bird introduction and thought it went well she would chase, grab, and carry the quail, but recently even that seems to have went away as she doesn’t want to grab and carry birds anymore.

I realize the pup is young, but as the new guy and this being my first pointing dog I don’t really know what to expect. Ease my mind please haha

[cjhills]

The pup is a bit under 4 months. It is not unusual that a dog would not point at that age. If the pup has good genetics pointing wil come. I am not familiar with PP but I think they may tend to be late bloomers.
Puppies get bored easy at that age. I think fun walks and exploring in the field and woods are better now. Some puppies do not handle structure training well At a young age.
I don't do much with birds until at least 6 months. Dogs that point early in life do not neccessarily make better hunters as adults.......Cj

[weimdogman]

I fell into the same trap -over anxious- to train .
Let the puppy be a puppy!
I subjected my 4 month old female to early navhda training-with a professional trainer , she had zero interest in planted birds. She still isn't really interested in planted birds at 3 years old. She is a rock solid pointing statue on wild birds

Check out Perfection krnnels live videos on fb.

[gonehuntin']

V dog's can start later than, say, setters. Just be patient. V dog's can be a handful. Their prey drive can surpass the desire to point on some of them. See what develops but I won't let them keep busting birds after they are six months old, and a dog like that I will NOT let them keep chasing.

[Bigjay1994]

Seems like the consensus is to relax and try to have some fun. I tend to be anxious and always think the worst first.

Thanks everyone for getting back to me. I’ll keep y’all updated. I’ll have more questions and look forward to hearing from some of y’all again in the future. Thanks again folks.

[fishvik]

What is more important than whether the pup is showing any pointing instincts at this age is how is pups prey drive? Does it clear the yard of song birds and squirrels? If it does the pointing will come with time and some training.

[RyanDoolittle]

Is this an alliance puppy?

[Bigjay1994]

I see prey drive. I also prey drive in my barn cat, which doesn’t mean it’ll make a good hunting companion haha

All jokes aside. She will chase just about anything and I’ve seen her sight pointing all kinds of things, but the other day at training she was literally running over the top of the quail she would mouth it and chase it all day, but didn’t want to pick it up even though she has before. I’ve got a video I can post of her first bird contact that looked really promising if I can figure out how to post videos here.

Although she was not from an alliance breeder; I am confident in the breeding. My breeder came recommended from an alliance breeder and the breeding would meet the alliance’s basic requirements. I understand the alliance is bigger than just the basic requirements, but like I said I’m confident in the breeding and the breeder continues to be helpful in our frequent discussions.

This probably deserves a post of its own, but I have a couple of hunting trips that I will be doing for the first time this year. I have a 4 year old lab so I will always have a reliable dog, but how should I manage expectations for these hunts with the pup? It’s hunting so I will always have fun, but just wanted to hear from you more experienced guys (and gals). Thank you!

[cjhills]

Assuming your hunting trips will be in October, the puppy will be around 7+ months. I would work on recall and collar conditioning to the point where I had pretty good control. I take the young puppies (6 months plus) out in the field alone, hopefully where there are a good amount of wild birds. I let them chase and maybe shoot a few accidental flushes in season or planted birds, if you think prey drive is low. Some trainers believe you should let them chase until they learn the can't catch. Some dogs love the chase so much they will never stop on there own.Then you need to stop chasing.
Also you might do some launcher training at six months or so. I am not very good at launcher training. Things go wrong for me a lot. like launching thewrong bird. Don on here isthetop launcher guy and will likely explain that.
Good luck...........Cj
PS. If your lab is a flusher, don't run them together.

[Bigjay1994]

I plan a grouse hunt in October and a prairie chicken hunt in late November. I did not plan on running them together as that seems to take a level of training that will not exist in the first season.

Thank you for the hunt/training advice. I will keep that in mind when the time comes. I did pick up two launchers in hopes to be able to use them on our property and the neighbors. Working with the NAVHDA group I’ve been paying attention to the importance of timing with those launchers.

[birddogger2]

bigjay -

As has been mentioned, prey drive, while very desirable, can have undesired consequences in pointing dogs. In any dog, but especially in a pointing dog...that prey drive needs to be "managed".

At 4 months of age, I start heel/whoa drills, after the manner of Paul Long, but using a pigging string, which is a poor man's version of the Smith wonder lead. Five or so minutes morning and evening will condition the dog to both keep their eyes on you and your movements and stop and stand. They will begin to understand that stopping and standing is both a desired(by YOU) behavior and almost as importantly, a SAFE place for them to be.

If the dog learns that when it stops and stands, it gets stroked and styled and praised... stopping and standing will be something the dog will WANT to do. The prey drive will turn into intensity, at least some of it. If the dog subsequently learns that busting and chasing gets it a reprimand and a correction... that will reinforce the proper choice in the dog's mind.

I am a big believer in installing the brakes and the steering in a race car before taking it out on the track. Same with dogs. HERE and WHOA, well introduced in the yard and reinforced in the field will go a long way toward making a solid hunting companion. I find I get less wrecks that way.

If you do the yard work thoroughly and correctly, the bird work will come relatively easily. Yes it is kinda boring and repetitive and you want to see the dog on birds. I get it. I encourage you to do the obedience work as well as you can. I try to make the heel/whoa drills into a game of "gotcha" after the dog gets pretty good at it. Stopping and starting and turning, without warning gets the dog really paying attention. Dropping the lead and walking our front while keeping the dog standing still also reinforces the lesson and channels the drive. That keeps it interesting and fun for both the dog and I.
If you rush the obedience and yard work, you will be fighting the dog's natural tendencies...and you might have a much longer, and much more frustrating training "experience".

FWIW, I buy the very best pointer pups I can, typically out of horseback shooting dog champions. They typically have more fire and desire than you could imagine.

Those puppies don't even see a bird until they are eight or nine months old. We do the yardwork and do training runs in birdless fields...until they have the come in and whoa things down pretty well. THEN... I take them directly to steady to wing and shot, and it usually does not take long.

Do the yardwork first and do it until the pup "gets it". If you have a dog in the field you can control, you can hunt the dog. If you have a dog in the field that is not in control... you ain't got much.

RayG

[oregon woodsmoke]

PP is Pudelpointer? My only suggestion is to back off on the pressure. 4 months is still a baby puppy. Let the little guy grow up before you expect adult behavior.

Four months is a good age to do fun, no pressure obedience work at home. Get the dog obeying you because it is the fun thing to do and the dog wants to please you and work with you. Get the dog really solid with the easy commands. And put in lots of miles walking out together.

If she can chase and grab the quail, you are using planted birds. She should not be able to catch quail; they should fly. Part of learning to point is to learn that the bird will fly away if she chases it. Get out in the fields and hope she puts up a few wild birds that she can't catch. You are teaching her bad things by putting her in a position that she can catch the birds by herself without your help. You want her to learn that chasing does no good until after you shoot the bird down.

But mostly, just relax, bond with her, and let her grow up a little more.

[oregon woodsmoke]

Coming back to add, when she chased and caught the quail did you shout "no" or "whoa" or do anything at all to indicate she wasn't doing it right. If you did and she is any sort of sensitive, you have trained her to leave the quail alone.

[Greatbasin]

My dog Cricket turned 6 months on opening day last year. It took her another 2 months to lock on her 1st point. She was a crazy chaser as a baby pup, because she has huge prey drive.
Then on Jan 31st last day of quail, she pointed no less than 30 birds and it was awesome. We got our limit and had a truly spectacular day. She helped me take almost 100 birds last season!
My advice, socializing and obedience is all you should do for the first year and keep it as light handed as possible. Intro the collar with the vibrate feature, if that's your thing mainly for recall safety.
However, in the hunting fields a puppy can do nothing wrong. Let them play, chase rabbits, swim, dig for mice and literally whatever they enjoy doing with you. Just relax, soak up the memories and learn all about your new partner. This will make the years to come so much better. They'll never be a puppy again so have nothing but fun for a year.
In that statement is some of the best advice I ever got.