Versatile dogs on predators

[Sureshotshane]

Was going to post this in my other thread but it got lengthy enough where I figured it ought to go in it’s own.

I will be getting a DD pup soon. My experience in the past with hunting dogs of my own are a very wise Airedale and an equally smart but slightly aloof Wirehaired Pointing Griffon.

My hunting time is split on average about like this: 40% big game, 20% upland (including squirrel, dove, and rabbit), 20% turkey, 20% predator.

In short, I really chose a DD because I hunt a variety of game, I don’t intend to be bird centric with the dog and sometimes I just go hunting and don’t know exactly what I’ll find. You could find squirrel, rabbit, quail, dove, fox, coyote, raccoon, turkey, and more on the same plot of land.

I already do a little bit of predator hunting and want to expand the hunting I do as well as figure out ways the new dog could benefit me. I need more furs for some garments and blankets.

I used to be one of few people in CA with their trapping license. It is illegal to trap recreationally or commercially anymore. Only for ADC. Not that trapping was that efficient since you could only use box traps. It was worth it for bobcats but it’s illegal to take bobcats at all anymore.

Firstly, I’d like to hear about folks experience in general with incorporating versatile dogs into more efficiently obtaining furbearers.

I’ve never seen a tolling dog work in person but I’m real interested to know if anyone uses their DD (or other breeds) to lure in coyotes? Or how this is trained in general?

We have a lot of fox here and in many areas you find fox and coyote in the same vicinity. I’ve seen them on the same stands, generally though I know what will come into a stand and set up for it. No fox in its right mind is going to come into a set with a dog moving all over the place so in these situations you don’t want the dog to be to noticeable. Anyone have luck training the dog to sit, or lay very still while at a set for 10-25 minutes? I imagine it would be similar to duck hunting where the dog patiently waits and will learn the game quickly?? Foxes are easy enough to call in, but you have to use hand calls here. They can come in like a bullet but if you make much movement they leave just as fast. The reason the dog would be handy is for the off occasion you hit a coyote or fox in a bad spot and need to trail it, and of course because it’s nice to spend time and hunt with the dog. I like to hunt fox with the 17 HMR because it doesn’t damage the pelt compared to my .204 Ruger. I have had some foxes run with the 17 and when they do it’s straight for the nastiest brush and there is usually no measurable blood. Provided the dog could wait patiently like a stone at the stand I could see them coming in handy; I’m sure no fox would get away if wounded.

Way off topic but I’d like to get a 17 Hornet if I could ever find one.

Since it it is illegal to trap here in CA. If you want to get predators or furbearers the only way is to call them in, stumble upon them, or use dogs. Some animals just aren’t as efficient to call in. I’ve heard of people calling in raccoons successfully but its never worked for me.

I’d prefer to not have to keep a pack of hounds if another dog can do it and a myriad of other things. Hence my other interest in the DD. I’m finding very little details on training or using DD for treeing or hunting raccoons. Same question could apply for trailing and treeing gray fox. Ideally that would be the warm up for going out of state for bobcat. Anyone do it reliably with just versatile breeds? Is the training similar to what is done with hounds? Do they bark enough on trail? I will have a GPS collar but still. Is more than one dog necessary? Very interested in this aspect. I don’t expect they do as well as a pack of hounds but I’d like to know about successes and failures, not just the occasional run in where a dog stumbled on a raccoon and killed or treed it. Consistency is important. I would be interested in making dedicated trips.

Lastly... Can’t trap but CA is interesting because you can hunt all the furbearers that you used to be able to trap. There is a beaver season, muskrat, etc. I’d have to check in on the laws on this but assuming it’s legal to use dogs. Would a dog be able to help you with targeting beaver in some way? I’m not sure I’d want the dog to get into a skirmish with a beaver (certainly not in the water) but locating them. I also know of several ponds, sloughs and lakes that have beaver and since nobody targets them, they are quite bold. Would a DD be able to retrieve a 35+ pound beaver from the water? I know of one specific lake/pond that at certain times is loaded with muskrat early in the morning. I’ve always had an idea of sitting on a knoll above and shooting a few dozen of them and go along the shore in with a canoe to retrieve them. A dog would make that a lot easier.

It seems like a lot of people have the versatile breeds but still their primary quarry is upland birds and waterfowl. It gets all the attention but I’d like to realize the full potential of the dog, get creative and put it to use. I know some of ya’ll out there have thought of it and put it into action and I want to hear how it went.

Thanks!

[Garrison]

Have you ever looked into Blackmouth Curs? For the hunting goals you have, the property/ work situation, and the abundance of predators you encounter in your area, you would be hard pressed to find a better fit. Amazing animals.

Garrison

[Sureshotshane]

Garrison - yes I have considered them. I’d like to get one sometime, especially for squirrel. Most the breeders of good dogs seem to be back east from me. I’m just gonna start with the training of one pup for now. I very well could end up with another dog (maybe a Jagd, Patterdale, or cur) by the end of 2022. If someone could guarantee me a dog that was heck on gophers, and I mean really good. I’d get it for that alone.

Don’t get me wrong - I want a dog that points. I love to chase birds, everything has its time of the year.

I haven’t heard much about curs and bird hunting though.

[Sureshotshane]

Oh and I see you are down in Riverside. The dog I’m getting is from a fellow down in Riverside, he came well recommended by other DD breeders closer by me and has a litter due in mid-October. My deposit is in for 1st pick on a male pup.

I’ve been very clear and detailed with all the potential breeders and other people with DDs that I visited and spoke with. I wanted to make sure it would be a good fit. I made sure to emphasize that fur was important to me and all of them were certain I’d found the right breed. Like I said though - a lot of people say they hunt a lot. What’s a lot? It’s hard for others to understand the type of hunting and how much of it you really do. And it’s equally hard to understand how other breeders and handlers hunt, or if they are more interested in the tests.