In Ground Fencing and E Collars

[Interloper]

I've read the less than glowing reviews on here about the Sportdog collars. I am curious if anyone here has experience with their Contain + Train system. I have a Boykin pup that I'm about one month into obedience training. She's my second Boykin. I trained the first as well and while he was pretty well trained I want to dial in the obedience training. Bears, tourists driving too fast on my dirt road and untrained dogs in the national forest are all issues here but I can't justify/won't prioritize the time required for rigorous gun dog training. I figured if I loiter around here and similar sites and gain some additional knowledge and employee some of the more rigorous techniques required for a good gun dog I'll end up with a very well trained house/trail dog. I'm in the woods a lot. In light of that, and in reading through the forum, I am waivering between an e collar, electric fence, combination or both. My takeaway thus far is most on here don't trust an electric fence. I understand that and do have a hard fence off of the back of my house. But an e fence would be useful when I'm gardening, chopping wood, in the shop, etc. Times when I'm outside and would like the dog to get some fresh air but the dog might slip out of site for a few minutes, as my last Boykin was want to do. That said, my other takeaway from this forum is a very well trained dog with a good e collar is probably the best solution. Questions are:

1) Am I reading general consensus of the forum correctly? E fences are simply not to be trusted and a well trained dog with a high quality e collar is far superior.

2) Is the Sportdog collar only inferior in more physically demanding or expansive environments or for more demanding handlers (gun dog handlers) or are their issues across the board that would affect all training (erratic functionality etc)?

3) Does anyone have experience with the Sportdog Contain + Train System? (The only competitor I see with a containment/training system is "Extreme Dog Fence" and I don't see any mention of them at all on here, presumably because their product doesn't fit a gun dog handler's needs.

Boiled down... Is the Sportdog product so inferior in a training capacity that I should be wary of their products despite their unique positioning in offering a contain and train system which I think probably best meets my obedience/containment oriented needs?

Separately, for instruction on training I've re read:

-Retriever Training for Spaniels

-The Art of Training a New Puppy (New Skete)

and am Reading

-The Culture Clash

-Don't Shoot the Dog

The latter get the most ink from the general public for obedience training. If I'm missing a book that splits the baby between basic obedience and some more rigorous gun dog training (or one that is just a must read) I'd love to know about it.

Thanks and thanks for having me despite not being a bona fide gun dog handler.

[RayGubernat]

Interloper -

Welcome aboard.

I do pointing dogs, so I can't help much with a Boykin other than to say that basic obedience is pretty similar regardless of breed. I do have two neighbors that have e-fences and they seem to work for their dogs. The dogs involved are mostly herding types, a Great Pyrenees for one and a mixed breed with some border collie in it. Both those types tend to be "close to home" types, as opposed to bird dogs or hounds which are born to ramble, so they may be more "disposed" to stay close. On the one neighbor's property, I know the fence is non-functional, but the dog(the border collie mix who is several years old) simply does not go near the boundary.

It is my understanding that the introduction and training of the dog relative to the e-fence is the key to compliance. I suspect that a Boykin can be successfully introduced to and train to avoid an e-fence, but I don't know. I know I would not trust my pointers to respect an e-fence.

Hopefully someone with more firsthand knowledge will chime in.

RayG

PS - Regarding e-collar usage, I suspect that a Boykin will be relatively receptive to basic obedience training with that tool. I would however read up on its proper use. My preference for basic obedience training is kinda old school,using checkcord, hands on and voice for introduction to the concepts with treats and praise(lots of praise). I will overlay the e-collar at a later stage. I do treat the e-collar as a long range check cord. If you choose to use the e-collar to keep your dog in your yard... I suggest that you will have to pay attention to the dog's whereabouts when you are both outside.

[gonehuntin']

Anything you can teach, or reinforce with an in ground fence, you can teach without it. I live on edge of a small town and have a large, unfenced yard. I begin as pups on CC's and teach them to NEVER go on a road. I'll let them go to the curb, then give them a sharp tug back commanding NO!. Usually by 12 to 16 weeks they have it. So, before they would be old enough for an ecollar, they have learned about roads. Then, at about 5-6 months, I'll reinforce with an ecollar. It's also useful hunting, which an unground fence worn't teach, in that if we're hunting a trail that ends at a road, they'll stop when they see the road and wait for me or return to me.

Once a dog learns to run through an underground fence, you're screwed. He'll do it again and again. The other side effect is that if the introduction is not very clear and concise, the dog may fear going into the yard so much he'll just dedicate or urinate in the house. Happened to my cousin. Then, as I've said above, the in ground fence has no application for hunting or the real world.

I'd kennel a dog (which I also have and MOST STRONGLY prescribe to before I ever got an unground fence.

[Chemist]

I don't have much experience with electronic fences. I had a neighbor who used one. His dog minded it real well until it would see a squirrel/cat/racoon/critter. Prey drive and momentum would carry the dog past the electronic fence. The problem is that the dog had learned if he crossed that part of the yard from either direction he would get shocked. After the animal he chased after was gone he would refuse to reenter the yard for fear of getting shocked. Not saying they can't work, but one example of where I have seen them fail.

[Steve007]

I don't have much experience with electronic fences. I had a neighbor who used one. His dog minded it real well until it would see a squirrel/cat/racoon/critter. Prey drive and momentum would carry the dog past the electronic fence. The problem is that the dog had learned if he crossed that part of the yard from either direction he would get shocked. After the animal he chased after was gone he would refuse to reenter the yard for fear of getting shocked. Not saying they can't work, but one example of where I have seen them fail.

Correct. And it's worth noting that the dog is at the mercy of other wandering dogs -- or people or animals-- who can cross into his territory with no problem.

[cjhills]

I used Inotek underground fence for several years. I live very close to a busy hiway. It work very well on my dogs. I could take the collars off and the dogs and take them across the road to my training area. Once in awhile I would forget to take the collars off. That was bad. Now many generations later my dogs still do not go to the Hiway. The fence has not been on for years. I never had a problem with other animals, but I live in a community where free ranging dogs have very short life expectancy.
The system itself did not work very well. Dead expensive camera batteries, lightning strikes, foraging deer would dig it up and break it.
As far as the contain and train, I never saw one the worked worth a hoot for a bird dog. None that I tried had enough range. About 200 or 300 feet.
Also it made ecollar training a bit more difficult because the dogs were very sensitive to the stim. The collars were harsh.......Cj

[Steve007]

Also it made ecollar training a bit more difficult because the dogs were very sensitive to the stim. The collars were harsh.......Cj

That's interesting. I didn't know that -- or hadn't ever thought of it-- but it certainly makes sense.