At what point

[Compton30]

At what point, did you decide to build and maintain your own permanent pigeon setup? I am currently in the process of building a holding pen for pigeons that I get from my local Amish. But as I'm doing it, I just keep thinking about the dollar bills that will being flying back to the barn to be sold again. I'm going to be working with two dogs that haven't been subjected to any steady to flush drills and my buddy keeps asking, "How many are we gonna need?" to which I answered, "As many as THEY need."

Anyway, I suppose this is related to training and it was just something rolling around in my head. When did you decide to keep your own pigeons that would return to your coop? Was it worth the time and trouble of getting the operation up and running? I'd imagine it's the same as reloading ammo with a significantly faster turnaround.

On a less serious note, what's the most amount of birds you've ever had to use on a dog to get them ready for the hunting season, to the standard you wanted them to be at, and whats the least? We all have our fast and slow learners!

[Idylwyld]

When did you decide to keep your own pigeons that would return to your coop? Was it worth the time and trouble of getting the operation up and running?

I had the same debate. I decided to go the feral pigeon route.
Could not find a reliable supplier of feral pigeons. Believe me I tried.

That led me to the realization that self sufficiency is the best solution. I trap my own wild pigeons. At first I paid attention to internet "experts" to my detriment. Flash a light look under bridges at night on and on, the trap doors advise I got was way off.

I did 3 videos on You Tube about my learning curve on the subject. I think Ive done a post on here with links to those videos. If you have not yet, take a look at them. I do not have all the answers, I do not consider myself a pigeon guru. But, those videos can cut your learning curve saving you time and money.

For the last several years I catch more than I need and actually let some go. Some of those I catch several times.

This year I found a real good spot. I currently run one trap in an old building that has become a pigeon roost, owner gave me a key and said get rid of as many as you can. I catch 30-40 a week running the trap every 48-72 hours. I set it up on the old front counter. No more climbing ladders and running 3-4 traps to catch what I need. I like, prefer and seek out simple stuff and processes that actually work.

I had the bright idea of trying to sell my excess birds to other dog trainers. Trust me, forget it. Not worth the trouble.

When I am done working dogs on pigeons I simply quit trapping until I need them again.

Benefit to me. Not having to feed and take care of a bunch of homing pigeons year round. Fussing with pigeons outside of what I use them for has no appeal to me. Some folks consider pigeons as a hobby. I do not.

As far as how many birds I go thru? I am currently working 4 dogs and use 8 per training session. I can get by with 4-5 birds, but Ive the luxury of plenty of birds, so I use them.

I use carded birds, so can work 2-3 dogs on the same 2-3 pigeons.

Ive got two broke dogs I use for field clean up. Example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5tamm ... EK&index=5

If you are using launchers my numbers of birds are irrelevant. You will go thru more birds popping them for a dog. I cant even guess that number, but at least double it.
One of several reasons I use carded birds. Homers are too docile and sit there. Most feral birds do not. They will get up and fly. I love spooky pigeons to work dogs on. Sometimes, you get a sorry feral pigeon that's got a lot of quit in him. I make sure those are eradicated from the pigeon gene pool.

You didn't ask. But, you mentioned enriching a farmer over renting birds. That sounds like a money pit with no ROI. Its important to understand costs. The way I am describing. At first you will spend money starting up. That gets better as you get equipped. Maybe consider spending that money on your own learning curve and equipment. You control your ROI.

I spend about 50 cents a bird currently. Wire for traps, a ladder, fuel, bait and feed and such. And of course you need to build a pen to hold them in. I built my holding pen back in 2007. Next time I build one it will be bigger and a walk in design with a set up in the corner to make it easier to catch my birds at o dark thirty in the morning.

My costs are spread out and have gone down per bird over a few years. At first I spent more time looking for places to trap, driving around observing pigeons, building traps etc. The time I spend has went down considerably as my learning curve got shallower. I am at maybe 3 hours a week right now. Bottom line? I am not at the mercy and whims of others for my training birds.

[TheMorningRise]

When I decided to get serious about bird dogs.

I started my loft with 16 birds that I purchased from a fellow trainer. These birds were of racing lineage (400 mile plus races). Good homing pigeons are worth more than any other training bird in my opinion. If you do it right, they fly; immediately, hard and with a purpose. There are things you can do to keep them in top flying shape, to ensure you have good flyers. My birds have been very durable as well.

Yes, there is some cost involved (i.e. the loft, the feed, etc). However, they are hardy birds. Here in Wisconsin, my birds see 100 degrees and minus 30 degrees. The only real PITA is getting them fresh water in the winter.

However, being able to go grab 4, 5, 10 or more when ever I want, take them to train (with and have no concern about purchasing birds) and knowing they will be back at the loft before we return from training........priceless!

[Compton30]

When did you decide to keep your own pigeons that would return to your coop? Was it worth the time and trouble of getting the operation up and running?

I had the same debate. I decided to go the feral pigeon route.
Could not find a reliable supplier of feral pigeons. Believe me I tried.

That led me to the realization that self sufficiency is the best solution. I trap my own wild pigeons. At first I paid attention to internet "experts" to my detriment. Flash a light look under bridges at night on and on, the trap doors advise I got was way off.

I did 3 videos on You Tube about my learning curve on the subject. I think Ive done a post on here with links to those videos. If you have not yet, take a look at them. I do not have all the answers, I do not consider myself a pigeon guru. But, those videos can cut your learning curve saving you time and money.

For the last several years I catch more than I need and actually let some go. Some of those I catch several times.

This year I found a real good spot. I currently run one trap in an old building that has become a pigeon roost, owner gave me a key and said get rid of as many as you can. I catch 30-40 a week running the trap every 48-72 hours. I set it up on the old front counter. No more climbing ladders and running 3-4 traps to catch what I need. I like, prefer and seek out simple stuff and processes that actually work.

I had the bright idea of trying to sell my excess birds to other dog trainers. Trust me, forget it. Not worth the trouble.

When I am done working dogs on pigeons I simply quit trapping until I need them again.

Benefit to me. Not having to feed and take care of a bunch of homing pigeons year round. Fussing with pigeons outside of what I use them for has no appeal to me. Some folks consider pigeons as a hobby. I do not.

As far as how many birds I go thru? I am currently working 4 dogs and use 8 per training session. I can get by with 4-5 birds, but Ive the luxury of plenty of birds, so I use them.

I use carded birds, so can work 2-3 dogs on the same 2-3 pigeons.

Ive got two broke dogs I use for field clean up. Example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5tamm ... EK&index=5

If you are using launchers my numbers of birds are irrelevant. You will go thru more birds popping them for a dog. I cant even guess that number, but at least double it.
One of several reasons I use carded birds. Homers are too docile and sit there. Most feral birds do not. They will get up and fly. I love spooky pigeons to work dogs on. Sometimes, you get a sorry feral pigeon that's got a lot of quit in him. I make sure those are eradicated from the pigeon gene pool.

You didn't ask. But, you mentioned enriching a farmer over renting birds. That sounds like a money pit with no ROI. Its important to understand costs. The way I am describing. At first you will spend money starting up. That gets better as you get equipped. Maybe consider spending that money on your own learning curve and equipment. You control your ROI.

I spend about 50 cents a bird currently. Wire for traps, a ladder, fuel, bait and feed and such. And of course you need to build a pen to hold them in. I built my holding pen back in 2007. Next time I build one it will be bigger and a walk in design with a set up in the corner to make it easier to catch my birds at o dark thirty in the morning.

My costs are spread out and have gone down per bird over a few years. At first I spent more time looking for places to trap, driving around observing pigeons, building traps etc. The time I spend has went down considerably as my learning curve got shallower. I am at maybe 3 hours a week right now. Bottom line? I am not at the mercy and whims of others for my training birds.

I watched your videos and think this is probably the route for me. I basically have every single thing necessary already with the exception of the pigeon trap, already on hand. I noticed you mentioned the roof of a Valero in the one video. Great idea. I'm always thinking grain and barns when I think pigeons.

I feel like this has gone from being a casual thought while working to something I will absolutely be implementing going forward. It's funny I sent this to my buddy to read over and watch the videos and he said, "We should use the money to get them a nice bottle of bourbon"

[Compton30]

When I decided to get serious about bird dogs.

I started my loft with 16 birds that I purchased from a fellow trainer. These birds were of racing lineage (400 mile plus races). Good homing pigeons are worth more than any other training bird in my opinion. If you do it right, they fly; immediately, hard and with a purpose. There are things you can do to keep them in top flying shape, to ensure you have good flyers. My birds have been very durable as well.

Yes, there is some cost involved (i.e. the loft, the feed, etc). However, they are hardy birds. Here in Wisconsin, my birds see 100 degrees and minus 30 degrees. The only real PITA is getting them fresh water in the winter.

However, being able to go grab 4, 5, 10 or more when ever I want, take them to train (with and have no concern about purchasing birds) and knowing they will be back at the loft before we return from training........priceless!

The appeal of always having them on hand and the self sustaining aspect is so tantalizing. Are you a pro trainer? That's kinda where I get hung up on having them year round.

I have a couple dogs and my buddy has a couple young dogs and that's really it. I just keep thinking, if I were doing this Spring/Summer and then leading up to our PA seasons then absolutely yes I'd be building a coop and getting immersed in going whole hog. But for working with a couple new dogs and tightening up my dogs, is it worth it?

[Idylwyld]

I watched your videos and think this is probably the route for me.

If you do go the route I took, good luck.

One tip. If you catch birds with feathered feet, they are useless. Do not even bother with them.

Watch your trap sizes, when you are hauling them up ladders smaller works better. When you find a spot you do not need a ladder a bigger trap is what you need, that equals more birds per run.

Interesting side note, the trap door you see in the video. It is not my original idea. Noticed pigeons roosting on top of an old gas station canopy, climbed up there to set a trap and found an old trap full of pigeon bones. That door was copied from that trap, it is much cheaper and a whole lot simpler and it actually works. Ive found in my life that simple works.

Do use a snap on the door when getting pigeons out. I had some get away from me before I started using the snap. I think I mentioned that in one of the videos.

My local Sonic was a hot spot for me for a couple of years. I trapped them out and pulled the trap, the other day I noticed some back on it....

If you live in farm country here is an idea. When I lived in N Dakota. I noticed pigeons sitting on old grain bins a couple of times. That led to coming back a few nights later with a net with a buddy. I confess a little beer was involved in this endeavor. Pulled 74 out of one bin. I kept myself and a local dog trainer in pigeons that way until I moved back south. Farmers thought it was great and would tell me what farm to go to for my next batch. That led to me getting access to private CRP to shoot ditch parrots. Years later, I still go up occasionally and shoot a few ditch parrots.

Look around your area for pigeons and you will find good spots.