Hunt Test Question

NDBDHunter · Post by **NDBDHunter** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:37 pm

The scenerio is: I'm running my dog in a master/senior test and my dog establishes point, I flush the bird, the gunner shoots the bird and the dog remains standing (I hope). The question is: After the dog has demonstrated it is steady Do I go and release the dog to fetch without direction from the judge or do I wait until the judge instructs me to release the dog?

During HT's I've always waited until the judge instructed me to release the dog, but last fall I ran a trial and after the shot I waited for the judge to tell me. The judge told me after the brace was over that I shouldn't wait. After the shot, I should go collar the dog and take her out of the area without direction from anyone. Not all judges will take the time to tell me what you've done wrong, I'm just curious.

ohiogsp · Post by **ohiogsp** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 pm

You send the dog on your own. JH is the only level you collar your dog after the shot in. Also in master you cannot collar your dog at all unless the brace is over.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:40 am

Interesting.

I had a brace in SH where the bird was flushed, shot AT (not shot) and I did not send my dog. The judge yells "SEND YOUR DOG!" I said, from my perspective the bird was not hit - no feathers, no interrupted flight and it hit the ground and ran (of course). They said send your dog or you will fail. So, I send the dog.

The dog comes back with a VERY alive bird. I had some words with the judge afterwords about the bird not being hit and possibly costing me a failure because of that fact. Good thing I knew the judge.

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:44 am

Buckeye_V wrote:Interesting.

I had a brace in SH where the bird was flushed, shot AT (not shot) and I did not send my dog. The judge yells "SEND YOUR DOG!" I said, from my perspective the bird was not hit - no feathers, no interrupted flight and it hit the ground and ran (of course). They said send your dog or you will fail. So, I send the dog.

The dog comes back with a VERY alive bird. I had some words with the judge afterwords about the bird not being hit and possibly costing me a failure because of that fact. Good thing I knew the judge.

Interesting, I had just the opposite experience with a judge. Bird was shot at, gunner was saying that he hit it. I sent my dog on an extremely long retrieve in the heat with very little breeze, and he couldn't locate the bird. After awhile he came back, wiped out, no bird. The judge told me that in a situation like that I should ask the judge to move on instead of sending my dog. Make the judge make that call, he said, because he would have said the bird wasn't hit and moved me on.

We went and located the bird after that and it turns out that it wasn't actually hit anyway. My dog did a stop to flush. We still failed due to my botched handling sending him on that retrieve, but it was nice to end on a good showing anyway.

So I guess the moral of the story is to go ahead and send your dog if it's a good, clean hit and retrieve situation, but ask for direction of the judge if there's any doubt.

tenbearsviz · Post by **tenbearsviz** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:01 pm

Ayres wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote: So I guess the moral of the story is to go ahead and send your dog if it's a good, clean hit and retrieve situation, but ask for direction of the judge if there's any doubt.

Here is an exerpt from the rule book "Some unusual situations can occur in the retrieve. For instance, the gunner fires a shot and the bird goes
down. When the dog is sent for the retrieve, the bird flies away. Some Judges say that if a command is given to retrieve, the dog must come back with the bird or the Retrieving score will be 0. In this circumstance, the attempt should not be scored and the Judges should give a dog a chance to retrieve another bird. The dog can continue on course for another find, or a callback could be used."

In SH, sure go ahead and ask. In MH, I would like to see the handler make a decision. The quote above helps with missed birds. Knowing this, you can send the dog with support from the rule book that your decision is fine.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:44 pm

You know, that excerpt is funny. I just attended a judging seminar this spring and this topic came up. According to AKC - it is the judges discression. However, according to the rulebook it says the judge "should" not will.

I've always heard that if you send your dog, it had better come back with a bird or you fail.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:32 pm

Interesting, I had just the opposite experience with a judge. Bird was shot at, gunner was saying that he hit it. I sent my dog on an extremely long retrieve in the heat with very little breeze, and he couldn't locate the bird. After awhile he came back, wiped out, no bird. The judge told me that in a situation like that I should ask the judge to move on instead of sending my dog. Make the judge make that call, he said, because he would have said the bird wasn't hit and moved me on.

Ayres,

I had almost the identical thing happen in my last Master Hunter Test. The bird field was rather small and tree lined on three sides. The gunners had already missed one bird off of my dog's point and one for the bracemate when my dog pointed in the tree line. I got the gunners in position, moved into flush and saw there were several birds on the ground, I told the gunners to pick out a bird and make sure of a kill. Gun went off and I asked the gunner if he downed a bird, "Well I think I did". The judge said to send the dog into the timber and see if she comes back with one. "Nope, can't do that, I don't want my dog in the timber if we're not sure a bird was killed". There were several birds in the flush and they all flew deeper into the timber. I only needed one pass to finish her and I could have been looking at train wreck. I asked the judge if we could move on and she agreed that it probably wasn't a good call. It probably does make a difference who the judge is but I appreciated her understanding of the situation. Had a call back on the retrieve and finished her MH.

As a rule ,Pass or Fail, Agree or Disagree, I always thank the judges for setting in the saddle. Without them I wouldn't be able to participate in an activity I enjoy!

Coveyrise64

tenbearsviz · Post by **tenbearsviz** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:23 am

Buckeye_V wrote:I've always heard that if you send your dog, it had better come back with a bird or you fail.

I have experianced this but mainly from judges who are field trialers. A good hunt test judge knows the rules and stays up with changes or the finer points. Go online and check your judges "Last seminar date". It isn't the tell all of the judges familiarity with the rules but it will beg the question as to how up to date the judges knowledge is.

snips · Post by **snips** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:44 am

I had a test last fall that a big covey got up, a bird was dropped, I sent my dog and he pointed more birds (could tell it was not the downed bird), judge said to go shoot that bird, they downed that bird. My dog went up and pointed more birds, judge said to just flush it and try to get him on the downed bird, which went great. Judge said if the dog did not figure it out he would do a call back. He was completly sympathetic to the bad situation. I thought it was good judging for the situation.