I'm about to get my first GSP pup. It'll also be my first time training a gun dog. What I'm looking for is a rough timeline (I know these will change somewhat for each dog/trainer) of when I should be teaching what. For example...
1. @ 8 weeks- house training, name recognition
2. @3-4 months- ........
3. @6 months- .......
Mainly I just want this so I can get all my thoughts in order and train in the most effective order and timing. I also want to see the differences between the different people's ideas.
Thanks everyone!
Training Timeline??
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Greg Jennings
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 5743
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:59 am
- Location: Springboro, OH
Hi Robbie,
If you'll search this site for the relevant posts on development by "Wagonmaster", you'll about the most concise that I've found.
2nd Pick: This book:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Way-Train-Yo ... 074&sr=1-1
has a good program for developing a young dog. It doesn't have quite the structure that you're asking for.
3rd Pick: Likewise the book and tapes on this site:
http://www.davewalkerdogs.com/ .
Video Picks: The Perfect Start DVD/Video that you can buy from this site and Janet's No Whistles No Whoas DVD/Video are both good.
The bottom line is that you want to spend the first full year of your pup's life getting it frequent exposure to good flying birds, learning its name and recall, good socialization and not much more than that.
Do not fall into the trap of thinking that a lot of obedience will substitute for bird contact. It doesn't work that way. Don't kick the bird exposure can down the road, go ahead and crush it.
A great thing to do would be to make friends with Brenda Roe (Snips) on this site and get her help first hand. She is a professional trainer in North GA. It won't be free, but it will be the best thing that you can do for your dog.
Best regards, Greg J.
If you'll search this site for the relevant posts on development by "Wagonmaster", you'll about the most concise that I've found.
2nd Pick: This book:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Way-Train-Yo ... 074&sr=1-1
has a good program for developing a young dog. It doesn't have quite the structure that you're asking for.
3rd Pick: Likewise the book and tapes on this site:
http://www.davewalkerdogs.com/ .
Video Picks: The Perfect Start DVD/Video that you can buy from this site and Janet's No Whistles No Whoas DVD/Video are both good.
The bottom line is that you want to spend the first full year of your pup's life getting it frequent exposure to good flying birds, learning its name and recall, good socialization and not much more than that.
Do not fall into the trap of thinking that a lot of obedience will substitute for bird contact. It doesn't work that way. Don't kick the bird exposure can down the road, go ahead and crush it.
A great thing to do would be to make friends with Brenda Roe (Snips) on this site and get her help first hand. She is a professional trainer in North GA. It won't be free, but it will be the best thing that you can do for your dog.
Best regards, Greg J.
FC Snips Spot-On Shooter SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3149
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3149
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Wapiti
Congradulations on your choice of dog. GSP's are wonderful dogs and terriffic hunters. I've found that training my dog is as much fun if not more fun than actually hunting. I'm currently training my second GSP. I learned a lot during my first go around and I can say the second has gone much smoother.
Both my dogs came from the same breeder. They are from different parents but their lines cross about 3 generations back. As a result I've noticed many similarities between the two, so my training methods have worked very will on both dogs.
I'm no expert but both dogs have responded wonderfully and are/were very good bird hunters. The following is an outline of my training:
8 weeks:
- Socialize pup
- Wing-on-a-string. This brings out the pointing instinct. Don’t overdo it on this exercise.
- Let pup play with and pack around a dead pigeon.
9-11 weeks:
-Continue Socializing pup.
- Start pup on Kennel and Here commands using treats. No pressure or correction! Make it a part of pups daily play time. Pup should learn very quickly and should know the commands within a week or so.
- Play retrieving games with some thing like a small paint roller. Don’t do more than a couple tosses a day. Make it fun and exciting for pup. This is mainly to bring out the retrieving instinct.
- I like to place a pigeon inside pups outdoor kennel and let it fly around inside while pups runs circles around the kennel. I feel this helps build strong desire for birds.
- Take pup for walks through some fields. Let pup explore and get use to the new sights, smells and sounds of nature.
- At meal time I like to place pups bowl about 10 feet away from a metal garbage can. While pup is eating I will hit the can with a stick. I gradually increase the intensity and duration of the banging. This should not even phase pup. Pup will associate the loud noise with something positive like food. In short order you can bang as hard as you can on the can. This is a great exercise to prep pup for the gun.
3 months:
- By this time pup should be well socialized. Pup should know the basic obedience commands Kennel and Here.
- At 3 months the bird work begins. I like to use a form of Wing-on-a-string to get pup scent pointing live birds. You can do this alone or get a helper. To start get a 5-6 ft pole. Tie a piece of 8-10 ft long string to the end. Take a live pigeon and tie both legs to the string. Plant the bird in some cover. Either lay the pole down or get your helper to stand back away from the bird holding the pole. Bring pup in down wind of the bird about 10-12 feet away. Pup should make scent and will either point bird or slowly move in towards the bird. Important note: Don’t let pup catch the bird. If for some reason pup does don’t panic, all is well just try not to let it happen again. If pup moves in to try and catch the bird, quickly lift the bird from the cover with the pole and allow it to flap and create excitement. Whom ever is holding the pole should turn their back to the pup grab the bird and walk away. Repeat this process until pup will scent point the bird. It shouldn’t take more than a few tries. Once pup is scent pointing quit this exercise.
- From now on I like to run pup on planted birds at least once a week. I like to use a couple remote launchers to plant the birds in. Allow pup to run free on a long check cord (C/C) in search of birds. Pup will quickly associate fields with birds and will begin searching for birds when let loose in a field. When pup makes scent and is pointing move in like you’re flushing the bird and pop it. Allow pup to give chase. Give lots of praise. This will build boldness and confidence. With each trip a field you will see your pup gaining confidence and will begin ranging out more and more.
- After a few weeks of pup chasing birds I will begin shooting the gun around pup. When pup is giving chase to a pointed/flushed bird and at least 20 yards away I will fire my gun into the air. After repeating a couple of times I will begin shortening up the distance pup is out before firing. I will also begin shooting a few birds hear and there. Before long I will shoot a bird right over the top of pup. The early noise preparation makes this transition very easy. When pup grabs the shot bird I will encourage him to bring it to me. Pup may or may not. Don’t run after pup trying to grab the bird. This is why I like to use a long C/C which will allow me to stop pup and walk up to him. Praise pup and let him hold the bird even pack it around for a minute then remove it from pups mouth.
4-5 months:
- I like to mix in game birds at this point. I take pup to a preserve and under controlled circumstances I will allow him to find and point planted pheasants and chuckars. I run pup with the C/C on.
- At 4 months I begin teaching pup the Whoa command again with no pressure. There are many was to do this.
6 months:
- I begin e-collar conditioning. Some people wait until pup is a year old. I have found no reason to wait unless you feel your pup is not ready. This process is very fast and pup because pup learns very quickly. Pup already knows the Kennel and Here command so making the transition with the e-collar is easy. In short order pup will be responding and obeying the commands with great enthusiasm.
- Pup should be retrieving at this point but may not always want to bring the bird to you. The e-collar along with the Here command makes this a simple fix.
You know have a dog that will find, point, and retrieve birds for you. There is much more work to do but you now have a good foundation to build on.
The following link to a write-up on training a pointing dog. It is by a professional trainer. His methods are very close to my own.
Read the posts by FCShorthair.
http://bbs.pointingdogjournal.com/showt ... &highlight
Both my dogs came from the same breeder. They are from different parents but their lines cross about 3 generations back. As a result I've noticed many similarities between the two, so my training methods have worked very will on both dogs.
I'm no expert but both dogs have responded wonderfully and are/were very good bird hunters. The following is an outline of my training:
8 weeks:
- Socialize pup
- Wing-on-a-string. This brings out the pointing instinct. Don’t overdo it on this exercise.
- Let pup play with and pack around a dead pigeon.
9-11 weeks:
-Continue Socializing pup.
- Start pup on Kennel and Here commands using treats. No pressure or correction! Make it a part of pups daily play time. Pup should learn very quickly and should know the commands within a week or so.
- Play retrieving games with some thing like a small paint roller. Don’t do more than a couple tosses a day. Make it fun and exciting for pup. This is mainly to bring out the retrieving instinct.
- I like to place a pigeon inside pups outdoor kennel and let it fly around inside while pups runs circles around the kennel. I feel this helps build strong desire for birds.
- Take pup for walks through some fields. Let pup explore and get use to the new sights, smells and sounds of nature.
- At meal time I like to place pups bowl about 10 feet away from a metal garbage can. While pup is eating I will hit the can with a stick. I gradually increase the intensity and duration of the banging. This should not even phase pup. Pup will associate the loud noise with something positive like food. In short order you can bang as hard as you can on the can. This is a great exercise to prep pup for the gun.
3 months:
- By this time pup should be well socialized. Pup should know the basic obedience commands Kennel and Here.
- At 3 months the bird work begins. I like to use a form of Wing-on-a-string to get pup scent pointing live birds. You can do this alone or get a helper. To start get a 5-6 ft pole. Tie a piece of 8-10 ft long string to the end. Take a live pigeon and tie both legs to the string. Plant the bird in some cover. Either lay the pole down or get your helper to stand back away from the bird holding the pole. Bring pup in down wind of the bird about 10-12 feet away. Pup should make scent and will either point bird or slowly move in towards the bird. Important note: Don’t let pup catch the bird. If for some reason pup does don’t panic, all is well just try not to let it happen again. If pup moves in to try and catch the bird, quickly lift the bird from the cover with the pole and allow it to flap and create excitement. Whom ever is holding the pole should turn their back to the pup grab the bird and walk away. Repeat this process until pup will scent point the bird. It shouldn’t take more than a few tries. Once pup is scent pointing quit this exercise.
- From now on I like to run pup on planted birds at least once a week. I like to use a couple remote launchers to plant the birds in. Allow pup to run free on a long check cord (C/C) in search of birds. Pup will quickly associate fields with birds and will begin searching for birds when let loose in a field. When pup makes scent and is pointing move in like you’re flushing the bird and pop it. Allow pup to give chase. Give lots of praise. This will build boldness and confidence. With each trip a field you will see your pup gaining confidence and will begin ranging out more and more.
- After a few weeks of pup chasing birds I will begin shooting the gun around pup. When pup is giving chase to a pointed/flushed bird and at least 20 yards away I will fire my gun into the air. After repeating a couple of times I will begin shortening up the distance pup is out before firing. I will also begin shooting a few birds hear and there. Before long I will shoot a bird right over the top of pup. The early noise preparation makes this transition very easy. When pup grabs the shot bird I will encourage him to bring it to me. Pup may or may not. Don’t run after pup trying to grab the bird. This is why I like to use a long C/C which will allow me to stop pup and walk up to him. Praise pup and let him hold the bird even pack it around for a minute then remove it from pups mouth.
4-5 months:
- I like to mix in game birds at this point. I take pup to a preserve and under controlled circumstances I will allow him to find and point planted pheasants and chuckars. I run pup with the C/C on.
- At 4 months I begin teaching pup the Whoa command again with no pressure. There are many was to do this.
6 months:
- I begin e-collar conditioning. Some people wait until pup is a year old. I have found no reason to wait unless you feel your pup is not ready. This process is very fast and pup because pup learns very quickly. Pup already knows the Kennel and Here command so making the transition with the e-collar is easy. In short order pup will be responding and obeying the commands with great enthusiasm.
- Pup should be retrieving at this point but may not always want to bring the bird to you. The e-collar along with the Here command makes this a simple fix.
You know have a dog that will find, point, and retrieve birds for you. There is much more work to do but you now have a good foundation to build on.
The following link to a write-up on training a pointing dog. It is by a professional trainer. His methods are very close to my own.
Read the posts by FCShorthair.
http://bbs.pointingdogjournal.com/showt ... &highlight
-
gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4868
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
I would have to agree with that! You NEED to give her a call, she probably would even help get you started!
Chris E. Kroll
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
I'd be careful of time line's. You dwell on something to long, the pup will probally get bored. Go to fast and you might leave the room while the pup is still wondering what happened. Important to learn to recognize where your pup is rather than where you think it is or suggesting that a some pre-plan'd point it is time to move on. Your pup will alway's tell you.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
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rnbiii
I understand that with puppies there is no such thing as a schedule. But I am starting from zero and was just looking for some basic guidelines. Basically, I don't want to wait too long to introduce an important idea or try to soon to teach something the pup is not ready for. Just very broad ideas.
Between that and help from pros like Brenda, I think I'm on the right track.
Between that and help from pros like Brenda, I think I'm on the right track.
I would suggest not worrying about timelines. Between Brenda and Grant being local, you will get all the mentoring you will need. Different dogs can be trained for different activities at different times. It is all about reading the dog and determining what the next step should be.
I can tell you from experience that I would definitely take Brenda up on her offer. As good as she is at training the dogs, she will also enable you to be more effective training and handling the dog. I can't tell you how much I have learned just chatting with Rick and Brenda.
I can tell you from experience that I would definitely take Brenda up on her offer. As good as she is at training the dogs, she will also enable you to be more effective training and handling the dog. I can't tell you how much I have learned just chatting with Rick and Brenda.
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Greg Jennings
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 5743
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:59 am
- Location: Springboro, OH
That's a very good baseline schedule.
Some thoughts. Ideas that I do or do not necessarily agree with except as noted. Just things that I've heard very successful people say.
-- Some folks do wing on a string just a couple of times to check for pointing instinct and then put it away.
-- The walks...I did mine about every other day... are what I think did the most for my pup. I started in very easy cover (mowed fields) and took him in other cover when he was older.
-- A pro that I admire throws little pieces of hot dog into grass for pup to find by scent (does no good if the grass doesn't hide the pieces).
-- The pigeon, quail or whatever *inside* a closed kennel or whatever with pup *outside* is a cool idea. My grandfather would throw a weak pen bird in the kennel with the litter and let them gang up on the bird.
-- Early on, some people don't like to use launchers. They feel that the dog gets launcher smart and could go sour. I used the fire out of them, but one of my training partner's dogs got sour to them.
-- The alternative is good flying birds that are lightly planted.
-- Some folks don't like the banging pots and pans during dinner time and rely on popping a cap while the dog is in full chase.
-- Note that he said that the pup was on a check cord at the preserve. My pup was set back about a month by catching two hen pheasants at a preserve.
Some thoughts. Ideas that I do or do not necessarily agree with except as noted. Just things that I've heard very successful people say.
-- Some folks do wing on a string just a couple of times to check for pointing instinct and then put it away.
-- The walks...I did mine about every other day... are what I think did the most for my pup. I started in very easy cover (mowed fields) and took him in other cover when he was older.
-- A pro that I admire throws little pieces of hot dog into grass for pup to find by scent (does no good if the grass doesn't hide the pieces).
-- The pigeon, quail or whatever *inside* a closed kennel or whatever with pup *outside* is a cool idea. My grandfather would throw a weak pen bird in the kennel with the litter and let them gang up on the bird.
-- Early on, some people don't like to use launchers. They feel that the dog gets launcher smart and could go sour. I used the fire out of them, but one of my training partner's dogs got sour to them.
-- The alternative is good flying birds that are lightly planted.
-- Some folks don't like the banging pots and pans during dinner time and rely on popping a cap while the dog is in full chase.
-- Note that he said that the pup was on a check cord at the preserve. My pup was set back about a month by catching two hen pheasants at a preserve.
Last edited by Greg Jennings on Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FC Snips Spot-On Shooter SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3149
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3149
I would not use launchers when the pup is that young in close working situations. Just my opinion.
I like Greg's ideas in conjunction with the other ideas.
The biggest thing I can say is there is no set timeline. Go at your dog's pace and pay attention to it. It'll tell you.
I would DEFINITELY take Brenda up on her offer. I had the good fortune of something similar and it helped me immensely!
I like Greg's ideas in conjunction with the other ideas.
The biggest thing I can say is there is no set timeline. Go at your dog's pace and pay attention to it. It'll tell you.
I would DEFINITELY take Brenda up on her offer. I had the good fortune of something similar and it helped me immensely!
We have done something with nothing for so long we are now qualified to do everything with anything....
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
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rnbiii
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TrueBlu Shorthairs
I'm a little late chiming in here, but I would say WEAR Brenda and Rick out by asking questions, spending time following them around, learn all you can, get pup out, to their facility, to Petsmart, to parks, for free runs in open spaces. Offer to wash their kennels, help where you can, pay them for their time. The investment will be WELL worth it. Enjoy your pup.