GSP Retrieve Issues

bferg_80002 · Post by **bferg_80002** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:32 am

I have a 14 month old GSP and I am having some retrieve issues with him. I have 2 problems:
1. He drops the dummy at my feet instead of holding it until I take it.

2. He does great when he has his e-collar or a check chord with a pinch collar- but when I take those off he goes to get the dummy and runds around with it. I recently read I should hold another dummy in my hand when he is running round with the first one...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

gwgdog66 · Post by **gwgdog66** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:51 pm

My 18 month old was doing the same thing. A real quail she would retrieve right back to hand, a dummy she would would run around me a time or two and drop it at my feet. I started giving here extra praise and attention when she would bring it straight back. She is getting better, now 7 out of 10 times she brings the dummy right to me. That's what is working for me right now. I'm sure the more expierenced members will have some ways to get quicker results.

Robby · Post by **Robby** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:26 pm

I did a FF in every step of the procedure and rewarded every good retrieve with a goody.
He does a good job in retrieving and delivering now.
Before there was mouthing, dropping, playing around.

Michael

Don · Post by **Don** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:02 pm

If your not going to force retrieve, then train with the dog on a check cord. How's it going to run around you in a circle if you have your hands on it. Dropping it at your feet? You pick it up don't you? First thing to try is just befor he gets back, take one step backward with one foot and go down on one knee, get the dummy befor he spits it. If you don't, don't pick it up. stand up and kick it away from you. Don't under any circumstances pick it up off the ground tho. He spit's, you kick it away. Does it a couple time's, take him away and do something else and pick it up with him gone or better yet, bring him back around later and kick it again. Your dog like's to retrieve, you just made it a game for him and never set the rules. Start setting the rules; he don't give it to you, you don't throw it and you sure don't pick it up!

Little hint, you have known all along what was going to happen and kept on doing the same thing hoping he'd do it right. He thinks he is! B e patient, he'll get it.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:21 pm

If you can practise in a hallway for a while.

Outdoors if the dogs fools about, turn your back - no praise until delivered to hand.

Dropping at your feet; practise very short retrieves so you can work on delivery. Good idea also is to have the dog wait while you walk out and place the retrieve object, this calms the dog down. It does sound like he is playing. Retrieve should be fun, but he needs to learn there is no reward (praise or pats etc) until it is done properly.

You can extend the difficulty of the retrieves by placing the dummy or bird in long grass, behind a fallen log or up on the log etc. Make the dog think so it is pleased with itself to find the retrieve rather than zooming about IMO.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:03 pm

Your problems are both the same. You're taking the collar off him and making him collar wise. Now, I feel the dog is not as well trained as you would leave us to believe or collar on or collar off, he'd perform. Are you following an organized program? How long have you been training him? What program are you following?

sweetsong · Post by **sweetsong** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:00 pm

All the previous posters have given you some great advise. I like to build up the retrieve by using it has a reward after some yard training. I only praise and pet her when she brings it in to me had holds it for me to take. This has worked for me with all of our dogs and so far we have not had to do any FF training, SO FAR!

Terry

bferg_80002 · Post by **bferg_80002** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:28 am

gonehuntin' wrote:Your problems are both the same. You're taking the collar off him and making him collar wise. Now, I feel the dog is not as well trained as you would leave us to believe or collar on or collar off, he'd perform. Are you following an organized program? How long have you been training him? What program are you following?

I think you are exactly right. I started him just using th book "Gun Dog" but I have decided over the past week:

1. he is collar wise and
2. I have gotten off the plan (I think I got satisfied with his progress)
3. Gun Dog is a good start but not a complete program

SO...here is what I am doing:

1.I have deiced we need to almost start from scratch: we are going back and doing simple obedience stuff and retrieves in the hallway at home using just a check chord and some rewards.

2. I am not going to put the collar on him again for a while- just check chord and pintch collar.

3. I am looking at more complete training programs (any suggestions?? I am sure this is a can of worms about which is best but just some that are farily simple and good for a first time dog owner)

4. I have hired a professional trainer- Ben Garcia from Hide Away Kennels to train us both! Jaeger is going to Hide Away for a while and I am going to go train with him at least once a week

Any other suggestions- I want to make some good corrections now before I completely mess him up.

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:58 am

Force Fetching (at least in my experience) has seemed to cure my GSPs from dropping birds/dummies/sticks etc. before bringing it absolutely to hand. Fetch - Hold - Give are the commands I teach using the ear pinch method. I had one dog completely FF'd in 3 days, and had another dog take over a month. In both cases, the dog now brings objects to hand.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:35 pm

My first suggestion is to use Gun Dog to start your evening fires. It is a horrible book, full of unsound training advice and horribly outdated. Next thing you should do is to ask your trainer what program he follows then buy a book on it and study it. That way you'll know how to progress your dog after you get him back. The more you work with the dog and the more messed up you get him, the longer it will take the trainer to get results. Which will cost you more money.

hoffmann35 · Post by **hoffmann35** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:41 pm

The NAVHDA green book has a good program for force fetching. I would suggest looking that one up.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:20 am

Do what Gone Hunting suggested , nothing.

Let the trainer do the training with his system and then you learn from the trainer how to handle the dog.

If you do something that the trainer doesnt do, all you will accomplish is confusing the dog.

bird · Post by **bird** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:57 am

bferg_80002 · Post by **bferg_80002** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:07 am

Thanks for the input. Obviously I am a rookie so I appreciate it. I think at this point I will just re-inforce basic here, heel, and sit commands until Aug. 20th when he goes to the trainer. I don't want to confuse Jaeger any more than he already might be. The last thing I want to do is more harm than good.

blanked · Post by **blanked** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:24 am

how about before the dog wander off or drops the dummy turn around and walk backwards while clapping your hands and making all kinds of excitetement. the dog will then start to chase after you with excitement and forget about dropping the dummy. then you turn around and reach for the dummy from the dogs mouth and praise him

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:03 pm

It sounds more like a "COME" issue than retrieving issue. If you fix one you will fix the other. If the dog is coming in good with the Ecollar he has had it used for Here work I assume. I would keep it on him for retrieving until you form a routine of doing it right. It can be used low level for a reminder to Come even retrieving.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:26 pm

Go back to the root of the problem to fix it. First thing you did I would guess, is play train to retrieve and you settled for less than you wanted to keep from pressureing a pup. Then at some point, long after the pup should have been trained to "come" you started in with a shock collar. Then as you got complience with the collar, you took it off to test the pup, unfortunately as sinps and Gonehuntin have noted, the dog really wasn't trained, you made it collar wise. Wasn't trained to come!

You don't need the collar for what your doing but you have to have control of the dog. It's called a check cord. Telling note is that when you call the dog with the collar on, it come's to you. With the collar off it doesn't, the dog is not trained!

For the retrieving even with the collar on, the dog still spits the object out at your feet. Your dog retrieves, just on it's terms! That's not good. That the dog goes and get's the dummy but either spits it at your feet or, w/o collar, runs around and plays stupid games is a sure sign of play training and the dog likes it. Key here is the dog like's retrieving! You have two choices, force break to retrieve, which I suggest your not experienced enought to do, or back up and use a different method to get the dog to finish the retrieve. What I would do were I you, is in my first post. Dog is on a check cord and you do not pick the dummy up off the ground. I doubt your dog will quit on you, it like's to fetch, just doesn't understand the rules. You get the dog to finish the retrieve and it will come right back to you, it want's to play the game!

Nothing complicated here, you just have to provide the proper instruction. When it come's in, if your right handed, take one step back with your right foot just befor the dog spit's. Go immediately down on that knee and get the dog, dummy in mouth and pull it in, dummy in mouth, hold it there but don't take it. Pull the dog in, keep the dummy in there and stroke the dog with the hand that is not controling the mouth. when your ready, take the dummy. Down on one knee like that, with the hand doing the stroking, reach over the dog to it's other side and as you stroke, pull into you. You'll have control of the head with one hand and the body traped between the other hand and your body.

How do you hold the dummy in there, easy. Your right hand goes out as you go down on your knee and four finger's go under the chin, thumb over the nose. Excert just enought pressure to keep the dog from spitting. If you screw it up, stand up and kick the dummy away a short distence.

This is a great example of why I don't play train to retrieve. I force break and never fool with this garbage.