Training the strong-willed puppy

prairiefire · Post by **prairiefire** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:49 am

Hello, all.

I just received a phone call from our trainer, Greg Dixon. He's now had Otto (an 8 mos. GSP) for five weeks, and I'll be picking him up this Friday.

He said that he has all the right instincts and will make a fine hunting dog with time and additional work, but he is strong-willed with a capital "S". Not stupid or slow, but he definitely thinks his way is the right way... We're totally on-board with his assessment and suggestions for additional "camp time".

My question for you, is this: Do any of you have suggestions for me when working with my hard-headed guy? How does your approach differ, as opposed to when you're working with a dog that's eager to please? I want to make sure that I'm not undoing all of Greg's hard work when Otto comes home.

I'll certainly be taking Greg's lead and will pepper him with questions this Friday, but I'd love to hear about anyone with similar experiences.

Many thanks!

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:48 am

SPEND TIME with Greg. He's a good one. Take the dog back and spend more time. Then, spend time with Greg. When you a resource like him, you need to utilize it as much as possible.

We have one here in Texas, Ronnie Sale. Those of us who have committed to spending lots of time with him have done well, whether hunting dog, trial dog, or hunting test dog, he knows his stuff. Those who are determined to do things their own hardheaded way have not faired as well in most cases.

prairiefire · Post by **prairiefire** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:07 pm

We have every intention of sending Otto to Greg's winter camp (about 2 1/2 months, beginning at the end of January). Today, he also suggested we send him over for a brief stint of obedience work in November, which I'm on board with as well. Unfortunately, Greg will be leaving to attend field trials almost immediately after I retrieve Otto, so I'm on my own for at least a month. Like I said, I intend to leave Greg's place with marching orders in hand. I guess I'm just having a hard time wrapping my brain around this puppy--I've never encountered one that was so strong willed before. He's definitely a challenge.

With regard to spending time with Greg, I would love to do that--but how much can you impose yourself onto your trainer? This is our first time sending a dog away and, while I'd love to absorb anything and everything he's willing to show me, I don't want to be a nuisance either. I know he's a busy guy. ???

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:16 pm

I'm going to let your trainer field most of this because he's the one you're paying. With a strong willed pup I accept nothing but perfection. It's the old saying, "give them an inch, they'll take a mile." You must let no command go unenforced and it's completed at your speed, not the dog's.

Carl Porter · Post by **Carl Porter** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:54 pm

Most trainers will welcome your presence. When I have people come over I put them to work. Thats how I started with Eldon Hongo 10 years ago. I would show up early enough to clean kennels before working any dogs.

I was in construction for 25 years and it seems those that start at the beginning, learn every step so you can do it in your sleep and graduate to the next become the best workers.

Treat every thing your trainer asks you to do as if it were the very first time. Learn all he will teach you from when to pick up dog sh*t to what side of the bush to plant a bird. That might sound stupid but we all have our own ways to do everything. The more you learn about your trainer and the way he does things the more help you will be to him when training. Stay for every dog every time you go out. Help plant birds, water dogs, get dogs in and out, gun, everything.

When i was helping Eldon, i learned when he was going to need my help. All he had to do was move his eyes in my direction. I by then knew what he wanted and was able to be a big help in training, all the time being trained myself. My agenda was a little differant, becasue i wanted to become a pro dog trainer. He was kind enough to spend years with me before I turned pro. It takes years and years to become a great dog trainer. You never stop learning, and most never stop helping those that are willing to do whatever it takes to learn.

Greg and Ronnie are both great guys and great trainers. Stick to them like glue if you want to learn and become good. I am sure they can always use help training. Even if you dont plan on becoming a dog trainer you will become a great dog handler. Foot hunting or field trialing. Good luck and work hard.
Carl

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:45 pm

Carl, Great post!

Prairiefire, I have worked with Greg to from time to time and he does know what it takes to get the best from a dog. Try to spend as much time with him when he has your dog as possible.

Don't worry about imposssing, just be willing to lend a hand whenever you can. Don't be afraid of overstaying your welcome, he will tell you if you are.

Good luck on the pup and I'm sure I will see him sometime.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:01 am

Worst thing you can do is the opposite of what Carl and I have done with pros. Go to their kennel, expect them to teach you, spend hours, and don't work. Catch birds, wash kennels, walk pups, help feed horses and dogs, take dogs to the airport, stay out of the way when other clients are there, don't give advice to their clients, etc. If you are willing to work hard and show that you want to do whatever it takes to learn, many are happy to teach. I don't know Greg well enough at all to know how he works. I do know Eldon and Ronnie quite well and they are thrilled to teach if you are willing to spend the time to learn.

Anyone can learn to train dogs, but few will spend the time to learn to read dogs. THAT takes time and more time.

prairiefire · Post by **prairiefire** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:18 am

Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I'll definitely speak to Greg about working out some sort of arrangement when he returns in November. I'm certain that part of my issue is that I'm not reading Otto correctly--and by the time I recognize an issue, it's long past the time when it should have been corrected.

While I'm new to the pointing dog thing, I'm willing to work hard--and I do know my way around a horse and can muck a stall with the best of 'em!

Man, I have to say this is so much tougher than I thought it would be. I grew up schooling crazy Thoroughbreds cross country and over fences. I gravely underestimated my puppy "opponent" here. Give me an 1100 lb white-eyed galloper any day!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:44 am

a strong willed pup is sometimes actually a better candidate for a beginning trainer than a soft willed pup. it is hard to ruin the strong willed pup by mistake. he will just blow your mistakes off unless you repeat them too much.

prairiefire · Post by **prairiefire** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:16 am

Excellent--a silver lining.
Thanks. I needed to hear this.

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:23 am

my dog right now is very hard headed and i think mr wagonmaster is right on, i have tried everything I can think of to screw him up and he is still bird hunting machine

SpringTastic · Post by **SpringTastic** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:37 pm

Stick in there!
I too have a very very strong headed puppy. Thelma my springer spaniel ahs been the dominant dog from birth in size and down right strong headed ways. her mother was like that and i was warned were as her sister is the total oppasite. Luckily i have lots of good advice from local game keepers who own springers and know my springers familys so the strong headed nature is known. Im deffinatly no expert and rely heavily on the advice i get but as mentioned above dont give the strong headed ones an inch. Thelma will often be punised but being a puppy i take her fuel away and she gets house bound for a few days...amazing how well they respond after that especially when she see me takign her sister out daily... and to think hre siter louise was the nightmare at first, recently i am gobsmaked by her pheasant flushing skills and instant recall even in mid flush hot on the heels of the bird. All i can say is listen to these guys i ahve read all over this forum now and it ahs helped me loads along with the folk that advice me over here in Scotland. They ahve plenty time to be puppys when their home in the garden or yard walk time is work time.
Good luck and all the best.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:28 pm

grew up schooling crazy Thoroughbreds cross country and over fences. I gravely underestimated my puppy "opponent" here. Give me an 1100 lb white-eyed galloper any day!

You'll do great then. I have found that people who grow up working with horses have an easier time when it comes to working with dogs. I dont' know what it is but it just comes more naturally.

Just remember that your pup is a pup and he needs to grow up mentally just like a young horse. Don't be in too much of a rush for him to learn things. Take it slow with him just as you would a 2-3 yr. old.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:37 pm

Do any of you have suggestions for me when working with my hard-headed guy? How does your approach differ...

MORE REPS.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:38 pm

prairiefire wrote:Hello, all.

I just received a phone call from our trainer, Greg Dixon. He's now had Otto (an 8 mos. GSP) for five weeks, and I'll be picking him up this Friday.

He said that he has all the right instincts and will make a fine hunting dog with time and additional work, but he is strong-willed with a capital "S". Not stupid or slow, but he definitely thinks his way is the right way... We're totally on-board with his assessment and suggestions for additional "camp time".

My question for you, is this: Do any of you have suggestions for me when working with my hard-headed guy? How does your approach differ, as opposed to when you're working with a dog that's eager to please? I want to make sure that I'm not undoing all of Greg's hard work when Otto comes home.

I'll certainly be taking Greg's lead and will pepper him with questions this Friday, but I'd love to hear about anyone with similar experiences.

Many thanks!

I know Greg and have seen enough of the dogs he's trained to tell you for sure the man knows dogs and I would trust his evaluation of any dog.

Talk to him about the specifics of where the dog exhibits being strong willed and or hard headed and ask him what he thinks the best route for you to go will be.

I can tell you that without a doubt the dog is going to require an above average level of patience and perserverence on your part and Greg's but in all honesty most of the better dogs I have ever produced fit somewhere between "strong willed", "hard headed" and outright cantankerous.

This is a dog you'll have to stay on top of until he's completely broke not letting him get away with blowing you off or refusing. Even after he's "finished" don't be surprised if some annual "tuning up" isn't in order as well.

If Greg thinks the dog is worth the time and effort trust him and follow his advice. CR

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