Training Video Differences

clint78z · Post by **clint78z** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:46 am

I just recieved Perfect Kennel last night and watched it all, I thought it was quite good. I liked how the show more of the basic commands, and what to do when things don't go perfect.

A couple of weeks before I got George Hickox Pointer video, there are some difference in training style. The main difference is e-collar, one means whoa and the other means COME. Which do you prefer to teach?? I am leaning towards collar meaning COME, I live in a heavily treed area. It's probably better because I want it more for recall on walks, rather than hunting.

Intrested in comments you had between the two styles, likes, dislikes !!!

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:03 pm

The main difference is e-collar, one means whoa and the other means COME. Which do you prefer to teach??

not sure i follow, but I think i might...the ecollar is used for reinforcing any known command, whoa or here. In the perfection kennels they are showing the dog the command and once the command is being followed 100% they transition to the ecollar, and show the dog that when you start to come the stimulation will go away. same thing with whoa, once you stop moving the stimulation will go away. it works with all commands.

you might want to take a another look at the tapes, there is a lot of info to digest.

SwitchGrassWPG · Post by **SwitchGrassWPG** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:20 pm

I use a Dogtra collar for both. Vibrate is for recall and stimulation is for whoa or any other reinforcement.

Jay

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:55 pm

Remember the e-collar is just a long CC when used properly. It doesn't send different commands but strictly reinforces that you are in control when you have told the dog to perform something you have already taught it.

It isn't used for just one action and it isn't used for just two. The same signal is sent to the dog when you ask it to do anything you have already taught.

Ezzy

SwitchGrassWPG · Post by **SwitchGrassWPG** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:16 am

Just remember, there is no one right method to use when training a dog. Obtainas much information as you can and use what works for you and your dog.

Jay

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:20 am

Clint,

I think if you took all the creditable DVD's and dissected them you'd find the same thing in each. Repetition, consistency and timing. Each trainer that makes a DVD has his own method, what would he have to sell if he didn't. Imagine the opening line as, "I have nothing new to tell you....". Why would you buy it? You wouldn't. So in order to make a DVD, you need to push some real or imagined new program.

These things are generally done by trainers either promoting their business or looking for another source of revenue. I recall a short while back watching a DVD that's supposed to be hot now. It was two DVD's and around $75. It did little to really explain things and the trainer made several mistakes he cautioned against without calling attention to them when they happen to everyone! Kinda like "Geeze, I hope nobody saw that".

Long before I would invest in a DVD on training, I would invest in some books on training. You can go to the Barnes & Noble and sit there and read the thing before you buy so you'll know if you want it in the first place! You cannot, anywhere I know of, go and preview a DVD before buying it! After you have read the books at Barnes & Noble, maybe even bought a couple, you'll have a better understanding of what your looking at on the DVD. Suddenly it gains merit or lack of merit. Having the people run around, talk to you in a concerned and loving manner and watch some dogs going thru the paces you don't understand in the first place; it's all a distraction! The important parts get glossed over and probably unintentionally.

clint78z · Post by **clint78z** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:34 am

I am aware that the e-collar is just like a leash, it is usually just to reinforce a command. The Hickox video seemed to imply that the dog doesn't need the command come or whoa in the field. The collar on the neck meant come, and the one on the back meant whoa. I assume that the dog gets place awareness after practicing many times in the field. I will watch it over again a couple of times, mabey look for some books.

I want to get my training planned out, that way I will be consistent and not change mid swing.

Thanks for all the help, Clint !!

NVgsp · Post by **NVgsp** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:44 am

Clint-
Check out the Hickox vid agian. The collar placement is different for "here" and "whoa." Essentially, you would need two ecollars, until the dog is completely broke. Personally, I train much like Hann does in the Perfection vids...One ecollar (neck) for multiple commands. My strategy when training is to "train like I hunt." But everyone has there little quirks or ideas...they all work, just find one that you feel is easiest for not only you, but your dog.
NV

Don · Post by **Don** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:31 pm

clint78z wrote:I am aware that the e-collar is just like a leash, it is usually just to reinforce a command. The Hickox video seemed to imply that the dog doesn't need the command come or whoa in the field. The collar on the neck meant come, and the one on the back meant whoa. I assume that the dog gets place awareness after practicing many times in the field. I will watch it over again a couple of times, mabey look for some books.

I want to get my training planned out, that way I will be consistent and not change mid swing.

Thanks for all the help, Clint !!

Clint,

I have never put a collar anywhere but around the neck. I assure you that if you train properly, you'll do just as well with it on the neck only and using only nic's. Most of that stuff I really believe is dreamed up to create material for a new book or video. Before we started hanging collar's everywhere on a dog and switching from nic's to constent and back, we somehow managed to train great dogs. It is my opinion that there is nothing gained by using a constent shock for anything other than punishment training. Of course there is nothing lost either. Then too, if you were to use only the constent properly, it would probably work just fine and you'd never miss the nic. But when your out there training, do you really want to have to memorize a chart of what to do with a collar in a given situtation? I sure don't! Shoot there's still people that refuse to use a collar at all!

Wading thru all this stuff seem's to me like a bunch of phyco babble. I can't help but wonder when we bred in the ability to reason to a dog? Training a dog is not rocket science. You can get so deep into the various methods and techniques that you spend more time training than necessary.

The shock collar and the remote release are to two best training devices ever for dog training. But guess what. If your shock collar does nothing but shock constently and shocks immediately when the button is pushed, no delay, and it has a range of 1/2 mile or less, it's all you need. Here's the point. If you have a dog out even a 1/4 mile that doesn't mind every time, it shouldn't be there in the first place! At a mile in most the cover I've hunted in, you won't even see the dog most of the time. A dog at a half mile is hard to keep track of if there's cover worth hunting in most cases and yet, many many people preach the need of a one mile range collar! Shoot, in most places you'll have trouble keeping track of a dog out 1/4 mi in decent bird cover.

clint78z · Post by **clint78z** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:10 am

Thanks for the comments, I will probably pick a simple method and be consistent. I may have exagerrated about his ranging, he probably never goes over 1/4mile. The thing is when he gets in the trees, who knows where he is. I have done a bit of check cord training, he still needs a few more months.

I ordered a Tritronics G3 upland, yes I payed for the beacon. I might get annoyed after a while and never use it, but mabey I will like it. I think it will be helpful so I can keep track of what he does for the first bit. It's more for my peace of mind, then I can trust him a bit more without worrying. Much later on I will begin e-collar training, I will probably use the nick. He is a pretty soft dog, so that's where I will start.

His training is coming along, he sits for quite a while without correction. He watches for commands, and where I am. He knows that i go through the door first, and waits for the release.

I have a question when on a leash does the dog always have to be in the heal position??? Or can I let him do his thing for a bit, sniff around. Then issue the heal command and reel him in?? He gets 30mins of day of leash training, so he basically knows what it means.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:21 am

clint78z wrote:I have a question when on a leash does the dog always have to be in the heal position??? Or can I let him do his thing for a bit, sniff around. Then issue the heal command and reel him in?? He gets 30mins of day of leash training, so he basically knows what it means.

No it doesn't. Let it do it's thing. Just be sure that before it does, you release it from the heel command.