has any one heard of Peggy Tillman?

WiskeyJaR · Post by **WiskeyJaR** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:16 pm

I was refered to her book "click training for dogs". Has anyone else had any dealings with her, or read any of her books?

WiskeyJaR · Post by **WiskeyJaR** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:16 pm

no one knows of her? <<shrugs>> woulda thought some of the trainers out there might have heard of her or her training style?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:35 pm

Clicker training doesn't lend itself well to gundog training in my mind. An I think most trainers pretty much agree .

Ezzy

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:35 pm

Whiskey

I have never heard of her, but one of the reasons that no one has responed is that the "click" or "clicker" training isn't a real common technique with hunting dog trainers. This is usaully more often seen in obedience/pet training.

If I'm off base here somebody please let me know.

shets114 · Post by **shets114** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:22 pm

Clicker training is useful in basic obedience and great for getting your puppy started on the basics. It is a reaction reward technique that can be taught to all sorts of animals. I have used it on Alpacas, Dogs and Horses. You can get some quick results. Just have to watch the dog doesn't get to food oriented.
Other than that I'm not sure how you could use it to train a pointing dog. I would stick to the basics for that.

WiskeyJaR · Post by **WiskeyJaR** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:25 pm

I have never heard of her, but one of the reasons that no one has responed is that the "click" or "clicker" training isn't a real common technique with hunting dog trainers. This is usaully more often seen in obedience/pet training.

Ahhh ok well that would make sence. I meet with a trainer this past friday, he mentioned click training for place board training. I havnt read her book yet, so dont know myself what she is all about. The trainer was saying that he has started to use click training when working on the place board and other things. He was just "mentioning" it as a possible way to reinforce the training.

Welp guess Ill read her book and decide wiether I want to use it or not. Thanks for the input folks.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:19 pm

That probably makes sense but I have never used a place board either.

Ezzy

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:17 pm

hmmm, i'm not too keen on this type of training but maybe as a pup its good to teach the basics but as you get into more advanced work I'm not so sure how well this works. People who advocate clicker training are totally against "hunters" and their methods. If you even mention the word ecollar they go off on a crusade in why these tools need to be banned and not manufactured anymore. I say this because I had a clicker trainer argue with me in the way I trained my dog. I'm not going to get into it.

But there is a book called: Positive Gun Dogs/Clicker Training. That I heard about last year. Again I'm not a fan of this for advanced work but hey, it works but it may take longer.

But after my experience with a militant clicker person I am totally turned off by it. Its as if they are so scared to "correct" a dog. And when you talk "pressure" they start to think you abuse/confuse and create an apprehensive dog and do everything they can to debunk methods other than their own... sorry...

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:21 pm

Couldn't agree with you more! Had someone on another board accuse a trainer of shocking a dog's genitals when they put the collar around the dog's flank! It was absolutely crazy, but you couldn't tell them any different. They just knew the dog was being tortured.

nitrex · Post by **nitrex** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:27 pm

It's amazing they have been teaching dolphins to do all kinds of tricks using a clicker and a few fish, but we gun dog owners refuse to keep learning that there may be better ways to teach our dogs the same old tricks.

Interesting that George Hickox and many other top level trainers are using the clicker for alot of the foundation and yard training. It is just another tool in the arsenal. I don't think the clicker is the end all to other training tools, but it sure helps teach the dog some basics and there is no pressure involved which keeps style and intensity.

I just read "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor and thought there was some good stuff in there for us "Gun Dog trainers." Again, I still use an ecollar, cc, and other tools, but I think alot of trainers are missing a useful tool because we are a little to old to learn new tricks?

Nitrex

shets114 · Post by **shets114** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:57 am

People who advocate clicker training are totally against "hunters" and their methods.

I advocate it and I'm sure if you ever tried it, you would agree it is pretty quick for the basics. Pretty sure I'm not against hunting.

it works but it may take longer

Never tried a bird dog to train beyond the basics but for the basics I can guarantee you I could get an animal to do what I want with no pain.

I am sure there are some animals out there that don't take to it as well as others. If you have an animal that is not food driven than it may not do as well. Yes I use an e-collar also. More for control at distance.(insurance policy).

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:10 am

My current litter was started with clicker training. I find it very useful for placeboard training and recall. Pups are now 4 mos. old and have been retrieving back to the placeboard since they were 12 weeks of age. I have transitioned that to retrieving right back to hand now without the placeboard.

BTW I am in no way adverse to the ecollar. I just find that the clicker is a great way to get pups started.

dogirl · Post by **dogirl** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:47 am

CherrystoneWeims wrote:My current litter was started with clicker training. I find it very useful for placeboard training and recall. Pups are now 4 mos. old and have been retrieving back to the placeboard since they were 12 weeks of age. I have transitioned that to retrieving right back to hand now without the placeboard.

BTW I am in no way adverse to the ecollar. I just find that the clicker is a great way to get pups started.

Pam...I'm with you. I did a lot of clicker with my dog as a small pup. Taught her retrieve to hand, targeting, and shaping which has really improved her problem solving ability why training as an adult IMO.

I also use the ecollar.

PS. And yes, I have heard of Peggy Tillman.

dogirl

dogirl · Post by **dogirl** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:52 am

TheShadow wrote:hmmm, i'm not too keen on this type of training but maybe as a pup its good to teach the basics but as you get into more advanced work I'm not so sure how well this works. People who advocate clicker training are totally against "hunters" and their methods. If you even mention the word ecollar they go off on a crusade in why these tools need to be banned and not manufactured anymore. I say this because I had a clicker trainer argue with me in the way I trained my dog. I'm not going to get into it.

But there is a book called: Positive Gun Dogs/Clicker Training. That I heard about last year. Again I'm not a fan of this for advanced work but hey, it works but it may take longer.

But after my experience with a militant clicker person I am totally turned off by it. Its as if they are so scared to "correct" a dog. And when you talk "pressure" they start to think you abuse/confuse and create an apprehensive dog and do everything they can to debunk methods other than their own... sorry...

That's too bad...you are letting ONE person change your mind about something.

Also, I use clicker and the ecollar and I am not against the"hunter" or traditional methods of training. Be careful making blanket statements like that.

dogirl · Post by **dogirl** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:56 am

nitrex wrote:It's amazing they have been teaching dolphins to do all kinds of tricks using a clicker and a few fish, but we gun dog owners refuse to keep learning that there may be better ways to teach our dogs the same old tricks.

Interesting that George Hickox and many other top level trainers are using the clicker for alot of the foundation and yard training. It is just another tool in the arsenal. I don't think the clicker is the end all to other training tools, but it sure helps teach the dog some basics and there is no pressure involved which keeps style and intensity.

I just read "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor and thought there was some good stuff in there for us "Gun Dog trainers." Again, I still use an ecollar, cc, and other tools, but I think alot of trainers are missing a useful tool because we are a little to old to learn new tricks?

Nitrex

Its nice to see this attitude. I think anyone who trains dogs should be openminded about ALL the available tools and techniques out there. Not all dogs respond equally or positively to any one method. Ther is no "cookbook" recipe for training dogs, including gundogs.

dogirl

dogirl · Post by **dogirl** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:00 am

WiskeyJaR,

You just have to find the combination of tools and tchniques that work for you and your dog.

One thing I do like about the clicker is that is can help improve the timing of the trainer, thus making he/she a better trainer no matter what method/tool they happen to be using. Just my 2 cents.

dogirl

WiskeyJaR · Post by **WiskeyJaR** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:43 am

Thanks Doggirl

I am trying to garther all the info I can and use what works. Biggest problem I have so far in training is....me

One thing I have found when giving a command, if I am pressuring her, she will not do command. As soon as I relax on the pressure, she does command with very little to no hesitation. I.E. heel; if I keep the leash tight, she pulls and struggles. If I let the leash slack, she stays right next to leg on heel....for the most part

Havnt started the click training yet, just 'cause aint gotten clicker yet. But I can see alot of benifit to it, as others said, in the basics.