Training Help Questions

[markerdown]

My 20 month GSP is still very much a pup. What I am noticing is that he is constantly doing the yo-yo act in the field and does not seem to want to venture out searching for birds. He'll run ahead, won't range out very far, do a sweep or two left to right or visa-versa, and then come back to me. He repeats this constantly.

He got his NA NAVHDA title and he knows what birds are. He can lock up on point like a statue. But, at the moment, he doesn't seem to want to go search for any birds. He will honor other dogs on point, and he can be steady to wing. He minds extremely well afield. This is driving me nuts. :roll:

Any suggestions to get him birdier other than more bird work?

I'm going to be running him in April for his UPT that's our long range goal. In the meantime, first and foremost, I bought him to be a hunter.

Should I just press on with the field work, try to coax him to venture out further and chalk this up to immaturity?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks..................................markerdown

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

In the first week plant one bird.

stake him out where he can see where you plant the bird 100-200 yds away. Work him he should make a Bee line for the bird - when he points - flush and kill the bird let him retrieve it, or if you are working SW&S make him stand and go pick up the bird and bring it back to him - give him the bird. You can mark the spots with surveyers tape if you have no real landmarks to help you remember.

next session - take a bird out 100-200 yds away and roughly 45 degrees away from the last bird you planted, repeat all the steps as before. Until you have worked single birds in roughly a 180 degree arc - over 500 yds or so.

2nd Week - Plant two birds - again let him see you plant both birds but this time plant them near the areas you had worked but not exactly - repeat the steps above. But, in a more random distribution.

By the third week - plant 3 or 4 birds in roughly the same area - but this time - stake him so he can't see where you are putting the birds. He will likely check out all the spots he had found birds - but when he doesn't find them in one area he/she is likely to run to the next area.

This will help him understand that he/she finds birds away from you and may help the yo-yoing you are talking about.

Just some thoughts - FWIW

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Doesn't sound like a birdiness problem as much as a lack of knowledge and experience on how to hunt to find birds. I'd run him/hunt him with bigger going dogs, take them to areas that hold wild birds and let him learn to range and to hunt. If he finds birds further out, he will run bigger. Most dogs that have had a lot of obedience put on them early without learning to hunt will not have much range. Some never come out of it.

His yo-yoing is from a lack of confidence, not finding birds away from you, and looking for direction. He needs independence. If he yo-yos shut up, don't talk, don't start the "hunt 'em up" stuff as he will get worse with talking.

[gonehuntin']

Have you by chance doing a lot or range control or obedience work with the dog?

[markerdown]

Never did any range contol work. He had a basic puppy obedience class when he was about 5 months old and thats it. I did some check cord work to get him to steady to wing until he got the idea.

Before our 5 year old blew her ACL they both exercised and trained afield together. He learned a lot from her. She is a big runner and has a large range. He would follow her for the most part. He trained for his NAVHDA title and did his field work with no yo-yo issues.

He started hanging close right around the time our female was out of action. Despite training and hunting with a friend of mine and his female GSP, he doesn't seem to focus on hunting, finding birds or working with her. If he's near her and she comes on point he'll automatically freeze and back. It's almost like he'd rather play than look for birds or is too lazy to look for them and he's just out to run and have fun.

He has the skills but at the present time isn't trying to apply them. And that's what I need to get him to do. He's no dummy

[WildRose]

Marker since you live in pretty good chukar country I think I'd just focus on hunting him alone as much as possible at every opportunity. He just needs a reason to get fired up and if he's bred right the more opportunity he gets on wild birds the more fired up he'll get.

They all go through various phases of mental development as they mature. Some are pretty frustrating. CR

[original mngsp]

Before our 5 year old blew her ACL they both exercised and trained afield together. He learned a lot from her. She is a big runner and has a large range. He would follow her for the most part. He trained for his NAVHDA title and did his field work with no yo-yo issues.

Run him alone. Why it may seem like the youngster is learning to range and hunt from the older dog, the more common occurance is that the youngster is just following along. Young dogs should be run alone until they have found birds by themselves and are showing independence in thier search. Only then should they be allowed to run with other dogs.

[gonehuntin']

I agree with most of the other guys. Run him alone. I would also work him on a lot of hand thrown clipwings. Too many times pointing dog trainers ignore letting a dog handle birds. Nothing makes them birdier.

Never pet or talk to him when he comes back in to you. Just continue and say nothing. Don't do much correcting around birds until he gets birdy and starts hunting. Keep the experiences as pleasant as possible. Just keep persevering.

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Tagging at the beginning can help to teach a dog to be bold, but not independent. Now that the older dog is not around your young dog has no one to chase and has not developed its own independence. As has been said, find very open country where the dog can still keep tabs on you and run the dog alone, saying nothing. Preferably in areas that bigger moves will reward the dog with finds. The dog will learn that it has to hunt hard and at range to find birds and won't look to you for so much guidance.

The dog is old enough to already be getting set in its ways, so I'd say to get the dog out asap or be prepared for a closer working dog in the future.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I don't know much about the requirements of a navada title as I am mainly AKC / AM field. I have heard that navhda is quite involved. Through my own experience, I found that when I overtrained my dog and put too much control on him, I got the yo-yo problem (that may not be the problem in your case). At 20 months it may be hard to get the independence back in him but it appears that from the other posts you are getting good advise.

I wish you the best.

[markerdown]

I just hope I'm not stuck with a 65lb solid liver yo yo

[Trekmoor]

I agree with most of the other comments, I think your dog is "ghosting" its running mate. Work him on his own, try to make him a more jealous hunter. Personally I try not to teach much stop until the dog has taught itself to go.

---"One toot and yer oot!!!"---