What do you call to your dog during a trial
What do you call to your dog during a trial
I am just getting started in cover dog trials (ran in my first one last weekend) and would like to know opinions on what words to use or how to call to your dog during the trial or what not to use. While training I use "get up here Tac (dogs name)" when my dog is behind me and "come Tac" when he is too far out or to the side. I was told that it was not a good idea to call like that while being judged during the trial.
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Hotpepper
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Any long or complicated verbage other than "here to come", "whoa to whoa", "No to no", "heel to heel", and "yo to YO", is much to hard.
I like the ability to keep it simple all the time, lots of yelling, whistle blowing to change direction would turn the dogs into something mechanical, that ain't it.
Singing to a down that goes and training time keep it to the front and them knowing it are where it is.
Pepper
I like the ability to keep it simple all the time, lots of yelling, whistle blowing to change direction would turn the dogs into something mechanical, that ain't it.
Singing to a down that goes and training time keep it to the front and them knowing it are where it is.
Pepper
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PntrRookie
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
I am going to assume here...seeing that I also am a newbie to the AF venues...that judges would like to hear more of the "singing" rather than the "commanding" types of verbiage. If your dog keys off your voice, will get and stay to the front, they really do not need to be commanded to do anything. They just need to know where you are...singing (heeyy-oh, etc.) will do that.JAG wrote:I was told that it was not a good idea to call like that while being judged during the trial.
JAG which trial did you run last week?
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Wagonmaster
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
My friend Jerry told you to sing to your dog, but since you are a beginner you may not understand what he is talking about and how fundamental it is. Commands such as "come,""heel," and "whoa" are important only at a few specific points during the time the dog is running. They may be used if you arrive at a sharp turn or a pinchpoint in the course, where you could lose the dog if it continues straight ahead, so you bring it in and guide it through the turn, then let it run again.
But in a field trial what the judges will look for is a dog that is constantly running to the front, reaching for objectives. Objectives are the places on the course where birds are likely to be, and yes, there are objectives even in the grouse woods. The edge of a distant woodland slough, a stand of cedars, the edge of a clearing are all objectives. The dog is frequently running these objectives out of sight of the handler. The handler needs to leave the dog alone, not try to over handle it. The judges will highly credit the dog that runs to and hunts these objectives itself, and will not be interested in the dog that is constantly being heeled and whoaed into spots by an overzealous handler. The handler also needs to stay in touch with the dog, so the dog knows the general direction the handler is moving along the course, so the dog hunts in that direction. And the way we do that is by singing to the dog, not "O solo mio" or "Row, row, row your boat," but by making like a foghorn... ooooooooooooo ...... . Ahhh boy. That way the dog knows where you are.
Leave your whistle at home, that is a recipe for a train wreck. Amateurs use a whistle to bring a dog in (come), or make it turn and quarter. So in a trial, two amateurs blow their whistles and the dogs can't tell one from the other. So about the time you want your dog to run, the other handler blows and in comes your dog. It is just a mess. Pros use a whistle for one thing and one thing only, to tell the dog to run, turn on the afterburners and go to the front.
But in a field trial what the judges will look for is a dog that is constantly running to the front, reaching for objectives. Objectives are the places on the course where birds are likely to be, and yes, there are objectives even in the grouse woods. The edge of a distant woodland slough, a stand of cedars, the edge of a clearing are all objectives. The dog is frequently running these objectives out of sight of the handler. The handler needs to leave the dog alone, not try to over handle it. The judges will highly credit the dog that runs to and hunts these objectives itself, and will not be interested in the dog that is constantly being heeled and whoaed into spots by an overzealous handler. The handler also needs to stay in touch with the dog, so the dog knows the general direction the handler is moving along the course, so the dog hunts in that direction. And the way we do that is by singing to the dog, not "O solo mio" or "Row, row, row your boat," but by making like a foghorn... ooooooooooooo ...... . Ahhh boy. That way the dog knows where you are.
Leave your whistle at home, that is a recipe for a train wreck. Amateurs use a whistle to bring a dog in (come), or make it turn and quarter. So in a trial, two amateurs blow their whistles and the dogs can't tell one from the other. So about the time you want your dog to run, the other handler blows and in comes your dog. It is just a mess. Pros use a whistle for one thing and one thing only, to tell the dog to run, turn on the afterburners and go to the front.
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Neil Mace
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
I have not run much in the woods and do it differently than most. But here is what I do at horseback trials:
From the break away I use the whistle (a long roll) and "All right" to send the dog forward. I "Whoop" the dog to turn him (if he turns the wrong way, though they rarely do, I just "whoop" twice more), I use "Here" when I want him to come back toward me repeatedly (it is one of the few commands I do repeat) until I get him where I want him to go forward, then "Whoop" and "All right". I will "Whoa" him one time, and once only, in a very firm voice. The dog's name often precedes the "Here" and "Whoa" command in a futile attempt to prevent the other handler from interfering.
When he is in sight and doing well, I will use the whistle and "All right", and when he is out of sight I will sing, "Yoooo boy, yooo boy", the longer he is gone the louder I will get. When he is gone close to being out of judgment I have a command to knock the birds and come to me, "You better hear me" in a very stern, angry voice. This is a tough one to train, and is only done by a few. But I am not going to lose a trial because we rode by a dog on point. I have used the command so infrequently, this is the first time I have divulged it, it has been my secret.
I don't yell the whole time like many, I never hack a dog, in fact, the less I say the closer they will run. But that is my dogs, and they have been trained to those few commands from wee pups. With reinforcement from the e-collar by the time they are 4 I can turn them or stop them as far as I can see them. I turned Azul this past Jan at 3/4 of a mile at the bottom of one bean field into the next, and whoed him into a back at 400 yards on a pointed dog he never saw.
I am aware that some judges do not like to hear "whoa" as it signifies to them the dog is not broke, my opinion is that my job is to show them the dog in the best possible way and theirs is to judge him. If we do not agree on that, I will go on down the road. I do not change my dogs or my handling to suite a judge.
Although not a command, the only other thing I am likely to say in the entire brace, is when the dog makes a really good move, I will turn my horse to the side in front of the judge, point to the dog with a "Yo my dog". But it best be a good move and not one he is likely to loop back on, this one can backfire on you.
I am not one to converse with the bracemate's handler or the judges. I have been told by some judges it does not have to be an adversarial relationship, we both want the same thing, a good performance, so I am perhaps too gruff to others when handling, but to me it is all about the dog for that brace. I am not saying it is ESP, just the dog deserves my full attention, I will be congenial at pick-up.
I never allow a scout to go unless I send them and only in the direction I send them, I continue forward with confidence as though I have the dog. When the dog does return, I recall the scout with 3 long blasts on the whistle. I get peeved when they do not promptly return, I want them behind me so I can use them when I need them, not out freelancing. I would rather have no scout than a bad one, my horses ground tie.
Despite what the AKC rules say about using the horse as a training aid, be most mindful of which way the horse is going when you command a dog, they will cue off the horse. I have seen handlers turn a dog with just their horse, never saying word.
I agree that whatever words you use should be short, and be very careful as to tone, too many sound mad at the dog from the break away, when he does well show it with a cheerful "All right". You can reward and punish your dog with your tone of voice. I think a dog hears like we do one of our brand name products in foreign TV commercials, something like, "Whaa whaa wha COCA COLA whaa whaa wha, whaa whaa wha COKE". You give a 5 word command and they heard their name and a cue, the rest was just background and tone.
I am reminded of Hall of Famer Doc Nitchman asking as he heard a handler yelling "whoa, whoa you SOB, whoa blankty blank, WHOA!" repeatedly in a loud voice to a dog to turn him and come, "I wonder what he says when he wants the dog to stand still?".
Much like a car, if I can make a dog go forward, turn and stop, I can win anywhere. And as in so many things, as John says, less is more. The more the dog seems to do it on his own, the less help you have to give him the more impressive will be his performance. It is about the dog, not you, the handler and for sure, not the scout.
Neil
From the break away I use the whistle (a long roll) and "All right" to send the dog forward. I "Whoop" the dog to turn him (if he turns the wrong way, though they rarely do, I just "whoop" twice more), I use "Here" when I want him to come back toward me repeatedly (it is one of the few commands I do repeat) until I get him where I want him to go forward, then "Whoop" and "All right". I will "Whoa" him one time, and once only, in a very firm voice. The dog's name often precedes the "Here" and "Whoa" command in a futile attempt to prevent the other handler from interfering.
When he is in sight and doing well, I will use the whistle and "All right", and when he is out of sight I will sing, "Yoooo boy, yooo boy", the longer he is gone the louder I will get. When he is gone close to being out of judgment I have a command to knock the birds and come to me, "You better hear me" in a very stern, angry voice. This is a tough one to train, and is only done by a few. But I am not going to lose a trial because we rode by a dog on point. I have used the command so infrequently, this is the first time I have divulged it, it has been my secret.
I don't yell the whole time like many, I never hack a dog, in fact, the less I say the closer they will run. But that is my dogs, and they have been trained to those few commands from wee pups. With reinforcement from the e-collar by the time they are 4 I can turn them or stop them as far as I can see them. I turned Azul this past Jan at 3/4 of a mile at the bottom of one bean field into the next, and whoed him into a back at 400 yards on a pointed dog he never saw.
I am aware that some judges do not like to hear "whoa" as it signifies to them the dog is not broke, my opinion is that my job is to show them the dog in the best possible way and theirs is to judge him. If we do not agree on that, I will go on down the road. I do not change my dogs or my handling to suite a judge.
Although not a command, the only other thing I am likely to say in the entire brace, is when the dog makes a really good move, I will turn my horse to the side in front of the judge, point to the dog with a "Yo my dog". But it best be a good move and not one he is likely to loop back on, this one can backfire on you.
I am not one to converse with the bracemate's handler or the judges. I have been told by some judges it does not have to be an adversarial relationship, we both want the same thing, a good performance, so I am perhaps too gruff to others when handling, but to me it is all about the dog for that brace. I am not saying it is ESP, just the dog deserves my full attention, I will be congenial at pick-up.
I never allow a scout to go unless I send them and only in the direction I send them, I continue forward with confidence as though I have the dog. When the dog does return, I recall the scout with 3 long blasts on the whistle. I get peeved when they do not promptly return, I want them behind me so I can use them when I need them, not out freelancing. I would rather have no scout than a bad one, my horses ground tie.
Despite what the AKC rules say about using the horse as a training aid, be most mindful of which way the horse is going when you command a dog, they will cue off the horse. I have seen handlers turn a dog with just their horse, never saying word.
I agree that whatever words you use should be short, and be very careful as to tone, too many sound mad at the dog from the break away, when he does well show it with a cheerful "All right". You can reward and punish your dog with your tone of voice. I think a dog hears like we do one of our brand name products in foreign TV commercials, something like, "Whaa whaa wha COCA COLA whaa whaa wha, whaa whaa wha COKE". You give a 5 word command and they heard their name and a cue, the rest was just background and tone.
I am reminded of Hall of Famer Doc Nitchman asking as he heard a handler yelling "whoa, whoa you SOB, whoa blankty blank, WHOA!" repeatedly in a loud voice to a dog to turn him and come, "I wonder what he says when he wants the dog to stand still?".
Much like a car, if I can make a dog go forward, turn and stop, I can win anywhere. And as in so many things, as John says, less is more. The more the dog seems to do it on his own, the less help you have to give him the more impressive will be his performance. It is about the dog, not you, the handler and for sure, not the scout.
Neil
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Thanks for that post, Neil. Very instructive stuff!
I'd add that if you want a big-going dog to stay out there, out of sight sometimes depending on the course, then keep singing. If you want the dog to come looking for you, shut up.
A pitfall for some handlers is that they nag their dogs to death. The dog turns them off and gives the impression of being a knothead. In handling, less is more (at least the appearance of less is more
)
I'd add that if you want a big-going dog to stay out there, out of sight sometimes depending on the course, then keep singing. If you want the dog to come looking for you, shut up.
A pitfall for some handlers is that they nag their dogs to death. The dog turns them off and gives the impression of being a knothead. In handling, less is more (at least the appearance of less is more
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sweetsong
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
This is why I love this forum!!!
I learn something every time I read it.
Thanks John and Neil
Terry
I learn something every time I read it.
Thanks John and Neil
Terry
Terry & Kim Singsank
Sweetsong Shorthairs
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Sweetsong Shorthairs
Sweetsong's Wildfire Greta
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=160
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
I too am a newbie, and running against a pro in my brace has been both educational, and intimidating...
With the other handler singing and seemingly shouting a sound that sounds like a WHOA! my dog became confused and would stop and start.
It wasnt until I realized I could get away from the other handler, that my dog settled down and ran normal..
With the other handler singing and seemingly shouting a sound that sounds like a WHOA! my dog became confused and would stop and start.
It wasnt until I realized I could get away from the other handler, that my dog settled down and ran normal..
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R-Heaton
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Jag,,,, your questions will answer themselves once you have gone to a few more trials then its just up to you to develop your own style. IMO you need about 3 calls,,, a hey your going the wrong way type call,,,,,, a your doing a great job type call,,,,, and a you have been gone to long type call you better be showing yourself. I would always stay away from using the whistle to make your dog turn or come,,,, use it as your drive call and stay away from using hand signals unless your a foot trialer,,, nothing looks more "green horn" than a guy on his horse using hand signals like he's directing traffic.
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Thank you for all the great advice. I am running my EP & ES in a cover dog puppy stake in PA this weekend. I think I will stick to a basic Ho (dragged out HOOoooo), until I get some experience. Both my pups run outfront for the most part so I don't have to say too much.
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Wagonmaster
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
There, Richy wrote the whole thing up for you.
One other thing not mentioned yet, is that the calls we use are not at all like obedience commands. An obedience person likes to use discrete words for different tasks. A dog will be taught to "Sit," "Heel," and "Come." All three are different words with a different sound. But dogs don't learn language. They learn what the handler wants from tone and pitch. So we may use "Whoa" (pronounced "Ho"), "yo-yo-yo," and "oooo," all three different commands that sound pretty much the same but mean completely different things. In fact there are more than three in the list I just wrote. When a dog goes on point, the point is well established, and we can see that the dog is not going to move, we use "Whoa" ("ho") in a low, reassuring tone of voice. This command means, "Stay cool, I am here and will be right with you to flush those birds." But when we ride up and we see that something we don't like is going on, the dog is loose and about to move or is moving already, maybe the birds are running, the command is "Whoa!)("ho!). Short, sharp and loud. It means "Don't you dare move you "bleep""
"yo-yo-yo" is usually high pitched and urgent, it is a command some use to turn a dog to the front when it is taking off in the wrong direction.
"Oooooo," the foghorn call, is as loud as necessary, but not urgent. It means, "I am over here, we are headed this way, just wanted you to know."
This isn't anything fancy.
But if you want to show that you are a greenhorn, train your dog with word commands. The stuff you would get from "bleep" Wolters book. "Hie on," "left," "right," "come,""let's go now" we will chuckle silently.
One other thing not mentioned yet, is that the calls we use are not at all like obedience commands. An obedience person likes to use discrete words for different tasks. A dog will be taught to "Sit," "Heel," and "Come." All three are different words with a different sound. But dogs don't learn language. They learn what the handler wants from tone and pitch. So we may use "Whoa" (pronounced "Ho"), "yo-yo-yo," and "oooo," all three different commands that sound pretty much the same but mean completely different things. In fact there are more than three in the list I just wrote. When a dog goes on point, the point is well established, and we can see that the dog is not going to move, we use "Whoa" ("ho") in a low, reassuring tone of voice. This command means, "Stay cool, I am here and will be right with you to flush those birds." But when we ride up and we see that something we don't like is going on, the dog is loose and about to move or is moving already, maybe the birds are running, the command is "Whoa!)("ho!). Short, sharp and loud. It means "Don't you dare move you "bleep""
"yo-yo-yo" is usually high pitched and urgent, it is a command some use to turn a dog to the front when it is taking off in the wrong direction.
"Oooooo," the foghorn call, is as loud as necessary, but not urgent. It means, "I am over here, we are headed this way, just wanted you to know."
This isn't anything fancy.
But if you want to show that you are a greenhorn, train your dog with word commands. The stuff you would get from "bleep" Wolters book. "Hie on," "left," "right," "come,""let's go now" we will chuckle silently.
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R-Heaton
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Silently???,,,, I have seen out right laughing and pointing when I handle.Wagonmaster wrote:we will chuckle silently
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vzkennels
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Yeah maybe so Rich but you have had the last laugh more then once!
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Remember when you were collaring Stitch off a find while I mounted up...I said to turn him loose and he bolted out of there with your leather glove stuck in his collar. They laughed at us then. Oh, and the time I turned Ladybuggies loose for you at the breakaway and you were still taking a leak out in the bushes somewhere. Laughed at us then as well...don't think we ever saw her again. Of course, shooting myself in the "bleep" with my .32 got some laughs...that stings, I wouldn't recommend it.I have seen out right laughing and pointing when I handle.
Basically what I'm sayin' is...if they don't laugh at your "singing", they'll find some other way to have fun with ya'!!
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vzkennels
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Doug it could have been worse,could have been one of those pink gloves or got caught in his zipper when you turned the dog loose before he finished. I'm laughing now & didn't see any of it.
I'm laughing now & didn't see any of it.
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
DGFavor wrote:Remember when you were collaring Stitch off a find while I mounted up...I said to turn him loose and he bolted out of there with your leather glove stuck in his collar. They laughed at us then. Oh, and the time I turned Ladybuggies loose for you at the breakaway and you were still taking a leak out in the bushes somewhere. Laughed at us then as well...don't think we ever saw her again. Of course, shooting myself in the "bleep" with my .32 got some laughs...that stings, I wouldn't recommend it.I have seen out right laughing and pointing when I handle.
Basically what I'm sayin' is...if they don't laugh at your "singing", they'll find some other way to have fun with ya'!!
Hehe! I still remember my first season, I'm a green rider on a 4 yr old green horse, and it's HOT, and he's sweaty. We're waiting at the breakaway for the next brace to go out, and before I knew what was happening, my horse laid down and tried to roll! With me on him!! In the mud! I yanked him up and punched him as hard as I could (with a few choice words mixed in), and with that, the gallery busted out laughing!
Now when I sing to my dog, I sing TROUUUUUU-BLLLLLLLE, as I figure I'm in DEEP doo doo.
Woodland's Spirit of Big Oaks & Woodland's Money Pit
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R-Heaton
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Chit ya,,, if your not laughing you might as well find a different hobby,,, cause your gonna lose more times than your gonna win.
We got lots of stories,,,, de-gloved fingers, broken legs, cracked ribs, horses leav'n us to walk back, judges screwing us, judge look'n kindly our way, dogs taking out birds, dogs never gettin 30 yrds away, dogs running off, dogs fight'n, horse's falling in the trailer, dogs dying some way to young some just got old, new pups, great breedings, accidental breedings, 30 minute derby placements, National Champions,,,,, and I wouldn't have traded any of it and we laughed the whole way,,,,,,,,, except that night in jail wasn't alot of fun, probably would take that one back.
We got lots of stories,,,, de-gloved fingers, broken legs, cracked ribs, horses leav'n us to walk back, judges screwing us, judge look'n kindly our way, dogs taking out birds, dogs never gettin 30 yrds away, dogs running off, dogs fight'n, horse's falling in the trailer, dogs dying some way to young some just got old, new pups, great breedings, accidental breedings, 30 minute derby placements, National Champions,,,,, and I wouldn't have traded any of it and we laughed the whole way,,,,,,,,, except that night in jail wasn't alot of fun, probably would take that one back.
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Well, this past weekend my bracemate and his scout were yappin and jokin about my not having a "CALL" for my dog, and that he felt it was beneath him to have me run with his dog which would obviously win going away.. Well his dog ran so wild the scout had to go way off to the side, where his horse stepped into a sinkhole and flipped ends.. They never did find that dog. Meanwhile I had 3 finds and a nice clean run..
Next time I have a
Next time I have a
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Haha - cmon man! Classic!except that night in jail wasn't alot of fun, probably would take that one back.
Officer: "Mr. Heaton, Mr. Heaton can you hear me?"
Mr. Heaton: "No"
Nice! No need to say anything if you don't have to!!Meanwhile I had 3 finds and a nice clean run..
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
That is classic. You guys have too much fun. I'm going to have to figure out a way to come up your way and meet you fellas.DGFavor wrote:Haha - cmon man! Classic!except that night in jail wasn't alot of fun, probably would take that one back.
Officer: "Mr. Heaton, Mr. Heaton can you hear me?"
Mr. Heaton: "No"
Nice! No need to say anything if you don't have to!!Meanwhile I had 3 finds and a nice clean run..
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Hotpepper
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
You really would not like them, they talk to their dogs and STUFF and act silly chasing the dogs, hollering all the time.
I know, I've seen them do it.
Pepper
I know, I've seen them do it.
Pepper
2009 NGSPA National Champion R/U
OFA Good 06/09
3 years of Age
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Jeremiah 29:11
God says He has Plans for Me
OFA Good 06/09
3 years of Age
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2071
Jeremiah 29:11
God says He has Plans for Me
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vzkennels
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
Most of the things they say to them can't be posted here! 
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Dirtysteve
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
I named my latest dog Tucker, I can get away with alot changing a letter or two in his name with people wondering if what they heard was right or not
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Keny Glasscock
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
I think I heard you using the "altered" name this weekend when I was behind you planting birds Brandon!! I just looked at the running order. That wasn't Tucker 
I just looked at the running order. That wasn't Tucker -
Dirtysteve
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Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
No it wasn't but for a minute or two he was called as close as you can get to TuckerI just looked at the running order. That wasn't Tucker
How big was that blue cloud over my head anyway?
Re: What do you call to your dog during a trial
I know my horse will never be the same.