Hi,
I haven’t done much research into AKC field trials, but I noticed they ride on horses. Can you be successful in these events without a horse?
Grant
Walking an AKC FT w/out horse
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grant
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TAK
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sdgord
akc trial ponyless
It has been done more than once, the trick is to be able to keep your dog moving to the front I think. The other is to be able to keep the pace up, I think you would cause a bit of a stir with your bracemate. If you are braced with an amateur I would think it may go easier but then again most pros are confident enough in their dogs to sit back a bit.SDGORD
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larue
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most clubs will hold an all walking trial,the judges and the scouts can ride,the handlers cannot.Akc allows the club to run three trials a year,but the third trial must be a walking trial.
You can walk effectively in many of the smaller grounds.Eagle here in wi is an example of a grounds that a horse is of very little help,other than maling it easier on the handler.
I watched a guy run a ngspa hour event walking,a wild bird trial.
the guy could walk! The humbling thing was he was at least 60.
The toughest thing about walking trials is that your dog cannot handle as well,and your dog had better stand on point until you can walk to him.A horse gives your dog a direction to handle to,and allows you to get to him much faster once seen on point.
The akc rules also state that the walking guy sets the pace in a horseback event,yet in most cases the judges will allow the handlers to separate at the first chance they get.
And tak you can win,if yor dog is good enough,it just is harder to get a dog to hang out there while on foot,as they cannot see you
like theycan on a horse.
You can walk effectively in many of the smaller grounds.Eagle here in wi is an example of a grounds that a horse is of very little help,other than maling it easier on the handler.
I watched a guy run a ngspa hour event walking,a wild bird trial.
the guy could walk! The humbling thing was he was at least 60.
The toughest thing about walking trials is that your dog cannot handle as well,and your dog had better stand on point until you can walk to him.A horse gives your dog a direction to handle to,and allows you to get to him much faster once seen on point.
The akc rules also state that the walking guy sets the pace in a horseback event,yet in most cases the judges will allow the handlers to separate at the first chance they get.
And tak you can win,if yor dog is good enough,it just is harder to get a dog to hang out there while on foot,as they cannot see you
like theycan on a horse.
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Mary
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Larue wrote
"The akc rules also state that the walking guy sets the pace in a horseback event,yet in most cases the judges will allow the handlers to separate at the first chance they get."
That is not the case in all stakes no matter if walking or horseback the judges set the pace. In all AKC trials walking is allowed horseback handling is allowed only if so stated on the premium. A walking handler should never intentionally try to hold back a horseback handler nor should a horseback handler try to leave the walking handler.
With the new rules coming out for AKC trials there is a statement about range for a foot handling stake and a horseback stake. If you dog does not range as far as a horseback dog does then you maybe at a disadvantage walking in a horseback stake. As a judge I look for the over all picture and have no problem putting up the dog that got-r-done be it a walking handler or horseback handler. My experience is most people, pros and amateur, are very courteous there are always a few that try to mess up their bracemate no matter what then the judge should do what is necessary to make it right.
Go out and give it a try you may find that you and your dog do a great job and win or place but most importantly you should have fun.
Mary
"The akc rules also state that the walking guy sets the pace in a horseback event,yet in most cases the judges will allow the handlers to separate at the first chance they get."
That is not the case in all stakes no matter if walking or horseback the judges set the pace. In all AKC trials walking is allowed horseback handling is allowed only if so stated on the premium. A walking handler should never intentionally try to hold back a horseback handler nor should a horseback handler try to leave the walking handler.
With the new rules coming out for AKC trials there is a statement about range for a foot handling stake and a horseback stake. If you dog does not range as far as a horseback dog does then you maybe at a disadvantage walking in a horseback stake. As a judge I look for the over all picture and have no problem putting up the dog that got-r-done be it a walking handler or horseback handler. My experience is most people, pros and amateur, are very courteous there are always a few that try to mess up their bracemate no matter what then the judge should do what is necessary to make it right.
Go out and give it a try you may find that you and your dog do a great job and win or place but most importantly you should have fun.
Mary
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larue
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mary you are correct,the judges are the ones in control of the pace,
by either going with a fast handler or not,but my point was that a foot handler is usually slower,and the horseback guy is usually required to stay at his pace while braced with him,until one dog has a bird,then quite often another pace is set.
I would bet that at most trials if you road the braces you would find a very different pace from the average horseback brace,and a walking brace in that trial.I can only think of one recent horseback trial that a the same pace could have been used for both.
I myself feel there should be no difference in a winning dogs range on foot or off of horseback.I have ran about a 50/50 mix of horseback and walking events.In my eyes it is the grounds not the horse that sets the dogs range.
As I stated a horse is a great help in handling,in seeing your dog,
in your dog seeing you,and in getting to your dog when needed.
But I guess I have watched too many great foot handled runs
where you see the dog every 4 minutes foward,and then find him on point,and watch the dog do it again.
A foot handled dog who is a big running dog,must be an honest broke dog,as it does take you much longer to get to him,while on foot.
One of the nicest foot handled dogs I have watched is scott stasiwitz's maggie dog,when he runs her at eagle.You cannot run a course better than she does,while on foot or on a horse.
Mary I did not understand your last comment about a judge making it right,If a dog makes a mistake,no matter what the cause
is it not a mistake?
Handling is part of the game,poor or great it does affect the final product of the run.
by either going with a fast handler or not,but my point was that a foot handler is usually slower,and the horseback guy is usually required to stay at his pace while braced with him,until one dog has a bird,then quite often another pace is set.
I would bet that at most trials if you road the braces you would find a very different pace from the average horseback brace,and a walking brace in that trial.I can only think of one recent horseback trial that a the same pace could have been used for both.
I myself feel there should be no difference in a winning dogs range on foot or off of horseback.I have ran about a 50/50 mix of horseback and walking events.In my eyes it is the grounds not the horse that sets the dogs range.
As I stated a horse is a great help in handling,in seeing your dog,
in your dog seeing you,and in getting to your dog when needed.
But I guess I have watched too many great foot handled runs
where you see the dog every 4 minutes foward,and then find him on point,and watch the dog do it again.
A foot handled dog who is a big running dog,must be an honest broke dog,as it does take you much longer to get to him,while on foot.
One of the nicest foot handled dogs I have watched is scott stasiwitz's maggie dog,when he runs her at eagle.You cannot run a course better than she does,while on foot or on a horse.
Mary I did not understand your last comment about a judge making it right,If a dog makes a mistake,no matter what the cause
is it not a mistake?
Handling is part of the game,poor or great it does affect the final product of the run.
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TAK
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And tak you can win,if yor dog is good enough,it just is harder to get a dog to hang out there while on foot,as they cannot see you
like theycan on a horse.
Ya I believe so but maybe only one or two. You think that a dedicated foot trialer would enter a National and still choose to compete off of foot? If so do you think they would have a chance or would they be done before they even cut them loose?
like theycan on a horse.
Ya I believe so but maybe only one or two. You think that a dedicated foot trialer would enter a National and still choose to compete off of foot? If so do you think they would have a chance or would they be done before they even cut them loose?
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larue
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tak,there can be a world of difference in finishing a dogs fc,and in competeing at the nationals,at least in the gsp world.
My comments where directed towards winning weekend trials,and finishing a dogs fc,not at winning the national championship
at eureka.That takes a strong shooting dog,with alot of class.
The reality is most weekend trials will have very few if any of the dogs running who can compete at euerka running.
I went out and bought my eva just to compete at the national
level,at her 2nd place in her puppy trial we had her in sight for 3 minutes out of 15.We had her at the breakaway,and at the end.
It is this type of power that is needed to win at the nationals,as she would have been seen much more out there.
Horseback or not it takes a very powerfull dog to compete at the gsp nationals in eureka.
Now the gsp world has the national am. gundog championship,a walking national championship.This is a national that a nice gundog can win.
My point was simply that good broke gundogs can and do win
every weekend in walking stakes,so give them a try.
My comments where directed towards winning weekend trials,and finishing a dogs fc,not at winning the national championship
at eureka.That takes a strong shooting dog,with alot of class.
The reality is most weekend trials will have very few if any of the dogs running who can compete at euerka running.
I went out and bought my eva just to compete at the national
level,at her 2nd place in her puppy trial we had her in sight for 3 minutes out of 15.We had her at the breakaway,and at the end.
It is this type of power that is needed to win at the nationals,as she would have been seen much more out there.
Horseback or not it takes a very powerfull dog to compete at the gsp nationals in eureka.
Now the gsp world has the national am. gundog championship,a walking national championship.This is a national that a nice gundog can win.
My point was simply that good broke gundogs can and do win
every weekend in walking stakes,so give them a try.
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Mary
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Larue
The judge setting the pace to me means the judge goes at the same pace for each brace and if the handler wants to ride off so be it. Naturally the pace will be slower for a walking handler as my horse does not walk that slow normally.
I judge quite a few AF trials as well as AKC and the pace is a flat walk for each brace. If the handler wants to ride off so be it we as judges do not go with him/her and seldom if ever will we gallop to a dog on point if they are broke they will be there when we get there.
Larue wrote."I myself feel there should be no difference in a winning dogs range on foot or off of horseback.I have ran about a 50/50 mix of horseback and walking events.In my eyes it is the grounds not the horse that sets the dogs range."
I agree but seems that AKC does not agree with us so as of Jan 06 we have two different ranges.
By saying a judge should make it right in regard to one handler trying to mess up the brace mate I was referring to something I have seen. The walking handler braced with a horseback handler will delibertely go verrrry slow, stop frequently, etc, in that case the judge should seperate the handlers. The Horseback handler will keep his horse right on the heels of the walker or delibertely turn the dog with his horse in that case I let the handler I know what is happening and to stop. Or two walking handlers and one goes verrry slow or tries to run off and leave the other.
Larue wrote"If a dog makes a mistake,no matter what the cause is it not a mistake?" Your right it is a mistake and no one can do anything about it no matter how much we may want to.
Hope this calarifies my comments
Thanks Mary
The judge setting the pace to me means the judge goes at the same pace for each brace and if the handler wants to ride off so be it. Naturally the pace will be slower for a walking handler as my horse does not walk that slow normally.
I judge quite a few AF trials as well as AKC and the pace is a flat walk for each brace. If the handler wants to ride off so be it we as judges do not go with him/her and seldom if ever will we gallop to a dog on point if they are broke they will be there when we get there.
Larue wrote."I myself feel there should be no difference in a winning dogs range on foot or off of horseback.I have ran about a 50/50 mix of horseback and walking events.In my eyes it is the grounds not the horse that sets the dogs range."
I agree but seems that AKC does not agree with us so as of Jan 06 we have two different ranges.By saying a judge should make it right in regard to one handler trying to mess up the brace mate I was referring to something I have seen. The walking handler braced with a horseback handler will delibertely go verrrry slow, stop frequently, etc, in that case the judge should seperate the handlers. The Horseback handler will keep his horse right on the heels of the walker or delibertely turn the dog with his horse in that case I let the handler I know what is happening and to stop. Or two walking handlers and one goes verrry slow or tries to run off and leave the other.
Larue wrote"If a dog makes a mistake,no matter what the cause is it not a mistake?" Your right it is a mistake and no one can do anything about it no matter how much we may want to.
Hope this calarifies my comments
Thanks Mary