so the first try at field trials.....

[ultracarry]

And I got a pretty blue ribbon for Derby.. four finds and I couldn't be more proud.

[GrayDawg]

Congrats! Where are you located? Looks to be the southwest somewhere?

WARNING: This is an expensive sport that you're about to get swept up into! It's contagious, LOTS of fun & it ain't cheap!!

Rob

[ultracarry]

I'm in so cal. The trial is in anza its the south coast vizsla club. She is running in puppy tmrow then she is done until she is steady through the shot.

[wems2371]

A big congrats to go with your win and your supersized photo! Glad to see you entered.

[ultracarry]

Ya that's from my phone... last min thing to send to my wife. I'll remove it till I can downsize

[Casper]

Congrats to you Tyler! Bet your glad you went

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Congrats, sounds like you got a good one. Like Rob said, welcome to the poor house. Your life is about to change because of that dog.
Good luck, you're gonna have a blast!


Doug

[ultracarry]

I'm very glad I did it. I just went in to meet some good people, get my pup tired and have some decent food. I have heard it from a lot of people that I will be in the poor house lol. Now I'm driving an hour out of my way so she can run today while I do a Sprint triathlon with the wife. I'll get some pics with some good people and good dogs and post them.

[Troy08er]

Tyler,congrats on the derby. Sorry,I didn't make it down. Been busy with Gator, he's still running a fever.Back to the vet in the morning.Hope he pulls throught it. Talk to ya later,Troy

[NA]

Congrats, this sport is addictiing.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

The Hook has been set!!

[ultracarry]

I am hooked sooo badly. I want to enter her in more.. but I do not want a Derby dog. We will have a lot of fun after she is broke and have fun getting there.

[Carl Porter]

Good thinking. Many a great dog never was allowed to acheive its potential by running to many puppy/derby. Dont ever let your dog do anything in training you would get thrown out in a broke dog stake.
Congrats and welcome to the family.
Carl

[Neil]

Good thinking. Many a great dog never was allowed to acheive its potential by running to many puppy/derby.
Carl

Please name me one GREAT dog that was ruined from running in Derby stakes?

Just one, please.

I often hear this, but do not believe it to be true, or even half true. It is just repeated as truth and accepted by all.

A lot of dog's do not make it as broke dogs, but that would have been the case if they never ran.

Neil

[kensfishing]

Good thinking. Many a great dog never was allowed to acheive its potential by running to many puppy/derby.
Carl

Please name me one GREAT dog that was ruined from running in Derby stakes?

Just one, please.

I often hear this, but do not believe it to be true, or even half true. It is just repeated as truth and accepted by all.

A lot of dog's do not make it as broke dogs, but that would have been the case if they never ran.

Neil

I've watched many a dog that ran too many derbys and kept chasing birds, and never could be broke. Your break a dog after puppy and keep them broke or hope to. If I had it to do over every dog I owned that ran and had derby points would be ran in broke dog stakes. Many dogs have won at derby age in a broke stake. My big dog never had any derby points or puppy for that matter, but won big when he needed too.

[Dave Quindt]

Good thinking. Many a great dog never was allowed to acheive its potential by running to many puppy/derby.
Carl

Please name me one GREAT dog that was ruined from running in Derby stakes?

Just one, please.

I often hear this, but do not believe it to be true, or even half true. It is just repeated as truth and accepted by all.

A lot of dog's do not make it as broke dogs, but that would have been the case if they never ran.

Neil

Neil, don't expect a fair answer when you don't ask a fair question. If the dog was ruined by running puppy/derby stakes, then he'd never become a great dog, or at least a great dog that you'd ever heard of.

I can rattle off lots of potentially great dogs that I've seen that were run excessively in puppy/derby stakes, developed bad habits and never cut it as broke dogs where their littermates were run in few if any juvenile stakes and never had problems. And I'm just an amateur; ask Carl how many dogs he's seen through the years. Of course, we both know he's unlikely to throw a client under the "internet bus" and say that they ruined a dog by running in too many juvenile stakes.

For what you say to be true, then nuture has no impact on how well dogs break out or how well they stay broke. My experience has been very different.

JMO,
Dave

[Neil]

Dave,

Ah, I just repeated the guy's statement in my question, seems fair to me. First this is mostly an AKC myth, you rarely hear it from AF guys.

There are lots of reasons Derbies don't make it as adult dogs, but I do not think 4 or 5, or even a dozen trials have much to do with it that can't be corrected in an equal number of training sessions. Derbies are by definition young, and therefore are still learning, and you can easily correct a lot of bad habits if caught before they are 2 years old.

Nearly all of the winning pointers have great Derby seasons, because they are trained to be steady from a young age, and developed over time. There is no reason other than a lack of maturity that an AKC Derby cannot be trained to be staunch and steady, you do not have to let them flash point just because some judges do.

I would much rather have a 2 year old dog to train that has ran every weekend in Puppy/Derby, and gained the experience of running and handling, than one that was put up from the time he was 16 months old and left in the kennel. Which if you are busy trailing is likely to happen if you don't run them past their first Derby win. If the only hole a dog has is not pointing, but knows how to go through the country and find birds, I can fix that and win. But if he points and holds like a Champion, but won't hunt, he will never win.

So I will continue to maintain that more dogs are ruined from being laid up than from being ran, even if allowed to chase. The biggest problem those over-ran Derbies have is they get trial wise (they point back home in the training yard, and chase at the trial) because most train alone. If you will train with a number of friends the dog doesn't know a training session from a field trial. Sorry, I don't know who Carl is.

One way to answer my question is to take the top Derbies of any breed for say 5 years ago and see if they are winning now as adults. In every breed I have tracked, unless injured, the winning Derbies became winning adults.

Most all of the dogs that run at Ames for the NC each year were eligible for the Derby Invitation.

So I still say it is an often repeated myth, since if I were not running them in Derby, I would be letting them run and knock birds in training until ready to steady. Now what I will do in a Derby stake with a dog that I am trying to steady, is pick him up for an infraction and after the judge and gallery leave do a little light correction.

Neil

[Winchey]

This is probably the most confusing thing for a beginning trainer, you have the boat that says let the dog be a dog and chase birds and learn on his own, then the group that says not to let them chase or you won't be able to break the dog, either way if you don't know what you are doing you will potentialluy have a problem.

[Neil]

either way if you don't know what you are doing you will potentialluy have a problem.

Well said, and was my point, if you know what you are doing it does not matter much what a 2 year old dog has been allowed to do, as long as it has learned to hunt and hunt hard, can find birds, you can put on the polish.

But if he has never ran enough to win in Derby, it is doubtful he will be able to compete in All-Age no matter how broke he is,

Neil