NSTRA - How does it compare?

[Dave Quindt]

Don't have time for the detailed response I'd like to write, but IMO the fastest path to having a competitive dog in NSTRA and becoming a competent handler is to go put a AKC Senior or Master Hunter title on your dog first, then go play NSTRA.

The beauty of hunt tests is that you get to learn how to handle your dog under judgment, but in a non-competitive environment. While there is still potential for pissing off a bracemate by your or your dog's actions, you generally don't have to worry about a bracemate trying to take advantage of you, plus the judges are in a much better position to help you as much as possible.

By the time that you finish a SH, or even better a MH title, you and your dog will be an experienced team and in a great position to jump into the NSTRA game with confidence, considering your dog will probably be better trained than most of the competition and you will be an experienced handler.

There are other things you can do of course; finding a few NSTRA competitors you could run some training braces against, going to as many NSTRA trials as possible as an observer, etc. But the guys I know who were new to field dog competitions that jumped directly into NSTRA were not as successful as those who started with hunt tests. In many cases, the same is true for established field trials as well; they guys who started with hunt tests tend to fair better than those who just jump into trialing. NSTRA is a fun game, but can be extremely hard on young or inexperienced dogs.

JMO,
Dave

[ckirsch]

I just sent in the entry for my first NSTRA trial, to be held in Savage MT in April. I've heard mixed reports on NSTRA in the past, but for what it's worth, all three of the NSTRA folks with whom I've had contact regarding this trial have been very encouraging and welcoming. I have a dog that I've run through some NAVHDA tests, and am looking for a new venue to try. NSTRA looks like it could be a lot of fun. I'm a little concerned about potentially screwing things up for bracemates by making rookie handling mistakes, but hey, everyone has to start somewhere. Not expecting to haul home any hardware; my plan is just to show up, keep my eyes and ears open to learn as much as I can, have some fun chasing birds with my dog, and hopefully make a few new friends along the way. I think Dave makes a valid point regarding the hunt tests being a good way to get one's feet wet prior to a trial, as NAVHDA tests have provided both my dog and I at least a little experience in working in front of judges. If NSTRA turns out to be as enjoyable as NAVHDA has been for me, I'll have a great time. Looking forward to getting my feet wet.....

[kninebirddog]

Thank you very much Dave for what is truly a great suggestion not only to give a new person handling experince but also help bring a dog to a solid level where they can do better.in other venues including NSTRA where a competitve edge. Begins.

[Dave Quindt]

Arlette & Craig,

I know I sound like a broken record some times, but I feel very strongly that most new folks should start with hunt tests, and AKC hunt tests in particular.

Most first time handlers, even with professional training assistance, are going to take 6-10 tests to pass SH and probably more to pass MH. Through all of those attempts you are going to see a ton of different situations, from bracemate handlers who scream at the top of their lungs to judges horses that can't stand still to have to flush a wet quail in a downpour, in waist-high grass.

More importantly, in order to pass, you are forced to learn your dog, and learn how to work as a team. The hunt test format; the requirement to pass the same test multiple times, isn't something you can slide through "on a good day". You and the dog have to show that you can work together as a team, on multiple occasions, usually on multiple grounds, to earn that title. The beauty of the HT program is that you can dabble in it and progress and your own speed. It doesn't take over your life (and your free time, and check book) like NSTRA or traditional field trials do.

As I think back through all of the folks I've seen get into dog games, for every 1 who is still participating there's another 5 who are not. These games churn through people & dogs at a pretty good rate. It just seems to me that the folks I know who started in hunt tests tend to have more success in other venues and stick around longer than the folks that just drop into the competitive stuff.

FWIW,
Dave

[Finelinegundogs]

NSTRA is a good venue. I got into running it about 3 years ago and only do a handful of trials a year adn with a recent move, it looks like I am going to have to travel much farther than the 7 minutes I was previously away from the trial grounds. A lot ot chat on here about some of the details and I thought I would chime in. A little on me, we've trained quarter horses for nearly 20 years and won multiple world ch titles. I have always been one who watched and took a ton of mental notes and when I started with watching some nstra trials, I did just that. I attented a few national trials and many local one's. Learned a TON and never had a dog in a brace.

First thing was that you do need a dog that handles well and that nstra isn't for all dogs. Mainly because it is a game and these dogs learn and play the game very well. How, well they learn there are 5 parts to these fields and when you flush and shoot a bird in one corner, they are off to another corner. Next, many of these older dogs are only worked on atv's and they do track the bird planters atv scent. The dogs soon realize that the bird is only going to be a few feet from the track and they pick up on it. Another is these guys with 3 dogs are going to draw better braces than a guy with one and the luck of the draw with the brace is a big key. I sat in on several draws and realized this and in my old region it would sometimes take 1.5-2 hours to draw a weekend trial as there would be 9 guys with 3 dogs. And the draw for your bracemate is key too. You may draw a dog that is top 20 in the standings overal and best you will do is split the brace with him. You aren't going to beat those dogs on most days unless it is late in the day and the scenting has been bad all day and the birds are starting to move around. And lastly, contrary to what anyone things, the judging is somewhat political. I've seen guys with a....and no offence to them.....gsp or brit with a docked tail that may stick almost straight and does not slam it's birds out score as high as an ep with a 12 o'clock tail that slams it's birds. But these are usually top handlers/trainers and I think the judges are maybe a little intimitated to give the score base on what is should be per the rule book. I've seen retrieves by a hof trainer where his dog went to the water trough and jumped in and 30 seconds later take the bird to the handler and it still had a mid 80's score where it should have been a 50.

Anyway, like I said, it is a good venue. To me personally, I would like to see a few things tightened up and changed to make it more fair. Some regions are doing amatuer and novice trials which would be much better for the novice dog/handler. I am not real familiar with other foot hunting associations that are similar but would love to hear about them.

[jasonw99]

stopping in a water trough on a retreive is a 50 and it doesnt matter who they are.. I gues with any venue that has judges there are always some inconsistencies. Thats part of the game and you have to play what is dealt to you. i would like to think that 90 percent of the time the judging is consistent and fair... Some regions have better judging and are more competitive than others

[CowboyBirdDogs]

Does anyone know much about the North Texas Lonestar Region? I'm thinking about going and watching a couple trials before I actually enter into one. If I go and see that it is out of our league as of now, I may wait until next fall to enter and just watch and take lots of notes now.

[scott townsend]

For those thinking of giving NSTRA a try a great way to start is getting in to one of the open/amateur trials or novice trail . The trouble with the novice trials is there just aren't very many held. You will find more open/amateurs. Also don't go out in a brace worring about the what ifs. If your dog intereferes with your bracemates dog, SO WHAT. If my bracemates dog interferes with my dog(short of fighting)and it causes my dog to get a reduced score or whatever, then I still need to work on MY dog. I have not done my job as a trainer. The thing about NSTRA that allot of folks fail to realize is there are dogs at various stages of training participating in the same class.The same can be said for the handlers. Some dogs and andlers are just getting started, others have been at it for ten years.
Go into it with an open mind, and be prepared to make some changes to your program, be them training techniques, breeding or buying. Don't be afraid to go out there and make mistakes.Every person on that field went through the same process of starting. They have all made mistakes.
The amateur format has been a great tool for attracting new members to NSTRA. It braces your dog against a dog of equal inexperience. Your dog will not gain much experience if it draws out against a veteran dog that has played the game with much success. But if he is paired with another beginner chances are he will get his share of finds as well.Plus the amateur format in general is run a bit looser to help get folks started and let them learn under a little less stressful conditions.