Gun Dog Forum

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:30 pm**

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2657955 ... 751842945/

there is the link to get some update on the trials sounds like nice dog work but those Blue Birds days are proving pretty hard to produce the birds

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:48 pm**

Well, if ya can't run with the big dogs, ya won't get ON the porch.....

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:08 pm**

Cajun Casey wrote:Well, if ya can't run with the big dogs, ya won't get ON the porch.....

You're right, they ran last week

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:18 pm**

ElhewPointer wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Well, if ya can't run with the big dogs, ya won't get ON the porch.....
You're right, they ran last week

Yeah, and my fav made the winner look good.

Stupid truck.....

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:23 pm**

Think over the years there have been plenty of the "big boys" that went birdless at Ames. At an event like this, birds are where they are.... the good ones will find them. Just gotta hope that the handlers can then find the dog when the dog finds the birds. From accounts so far, those finding birds have been buried pretty deep.

Reports from there are few and far between, but we are starting to hear stuff.
Fuzz

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:26 pm**

How come Kinze from brace 6, day 1, is out of contention for a callback if she is the only one who made it around clean with bird work?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:30 pm**

She is not the only one that made it around. Bodie had a real good run too.

There is a complete synopsis at https://www.facebook.com/groups/265795523432769/

The page is 2012 AKC Pointing Breed Gun Dog Championship. I am posting synopsis of each day's events there.

bb560m wrote:How come Kinze from brace 6, day 1, is out of contention for a callback if she is the only one who made it around clean with bird work?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:35 pm**

fuzznut wrote:Think over the years there have been plenty of the "big boys" that went birdless at Ames. At an event like this, birds are where they are.... the good ones will find them. Just gotta hope that the handlers can then find the dog when the dog finds the birds. From accounts so far, those finding birds have been buried pretty deep.

Reports from there are few and far between, but we are starting to hear stuff.
Fuzz

I think you nailed it. The dogs are probably more adaptable than the handlers.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:40 pm**

JuliaH wrote:She is not the only one that made it around. Bodie had a real good run too.

There is a complete synopsis at https://www.facebook.com/groups/265795523432769/

The page is 2012 AKC Pointing Breed Gun Dog Championship. I am posting synopsis of each day's events there.

bb560m wrote:How come Kinze from brace 6, day 1, is out of contention for a callback if she is the only one who made it around clean with bird work?

Non productive is probably a DQ at an event like this. How come no dog of the day on day 1?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:42 pm**

bummer one dog was called out of contention went to deep in the cover after 13 minutes gone handler had to pull out the garmin to find the dog which dog was found on point

rough start

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:47 pm**

Everyone working this trial are working pretty hard right now. Only 6 braces first day, but the folks working this trial are not just sitting around. We can enjoy the synopses (pl) and enjoy the trial and appreciate the workers, instead of grumbling about it and be happier people I expect.

bb560m wrote:
JuliaH wrote:She is not the only one that made it around. Bodie had a real good run too.

There is a complete synopsis at https://www.facebook.com/groups/265795523432769/

The page is 2012 AKC Pointing Breed Gun Dog Championship. I am posting synopsis of each day's events there.

bb560m wrote:How come Kinze from brace 6, day 1, is out of contention for a callback if she is the only one who made it around clean with bird work?
Non productive is probably a DQ at an event like this. How come no dog of the day on day 1?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:37 pm**

I think the FB page is great and I really enjoy it and appreciate the effort. Considering that AKC does not cover this event well on their site and FB makes it even more valuable.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:41 pm**

Ditto me... at least we are getting the information.... AKC is supposed to have it but there are hoops to jump thru. FB is going to be pretty simple as long as Trish has time to get the information shared

Cajun Casey wrote:I think the FB page is great and I really enjoy it and appreciate the effort. Considering that AKC does not cover this event well on their site and FB makes it even more valuable.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:45 pm**

Facebook? Ain'ta gonna do it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:55 pm**

bb560m wrote:How come Kinze from brace 6, day 1, is out of contention for a callback if she is the only one who made it around clean with bird work?

Who says the dog is out of contention?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:41 pm**

Wyndancer wrote:
bb560m wrote:How come Kinze from brace 6, day 1, is out of contention for a callback if she is the only one who made it around clean with bird work?
Who says the dog is out of contention?

Wasn't listed as dog of the day - 0 shot.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:45 pm**

Not necessarily. But since it was day one and nobody was posted it doesn't look good. From what I understand just because a dog wasn't listed as "dog of the day" doesn't mean they won't make the call back. And just because a dog is listed doesn't mean they will make the call back either.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:25 pm**

Jody said they (Kinze) didn't make the call back and is now headed to OKlahoma. I asked the question on another forum about what they looked for because it sounded like a good clean run with one of only two dogs that found birds. Does it hurt you to run early if they only take 12?

Carla

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:02 pm**

Ok finally getting the reports up on AKC for those that are opposed to Facebook http://www.akc.org/events/field_trials/ ... verage.cfm

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:16 am**

bb560m wrote: Non productive is probably a DQ at an event like this. How come no dog of the day on day 1?

Note that Doshe's Mason dog (11a) was birdless and was posted.

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:08 pm**

Note that Doshe's Mason dog (11a) was birdless and was posted.

Sounds as if Mason had a impressive race and was birdless.

Curious as to how can a dog without birdwork be posted a one of the "Dogs of the Day" though ?

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:14 pm**

Because Dog of the Day doesn't mean anything.

What matters is what the judges are thinking, and remember "Any second series shall be at the discretion of the Judges."

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:18 pm**

So in a AKC National Gun Dog Championship they could use a dog who never had birdwork in the 1st series in the 2nd series ?

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:30 pm**

Sure.

In 2006 John Carrocio and I judged the ISCA NFT at Booneville. After all the dogs ran, we didn't have anything we liked for the National Champion that had birds. So we had the Chair gather the committee and we told them that we wanted as second series and the dogs we wanted. 3 of the 4 didn't have birds (the one that had birds wasn't seen pointing, but was found standing after a covey burst) and the Winner was one of the ones that didn't. It was either that or Withheld.

Didn't make many friends, but we got the dog right. The same dog won the next year as well.....validation of sorts.

On edit to clarify: The winner did have bird work in the second series of the 2006 ISCA NFC stake.

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:48 pm**

Grand Junction TN is under tornado watch now

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:00 pm**

JuliaH wrote:Grand Junction TN is under tornado watch now

Not a good day for weather, as Kansas, Missouri and Kentucky found out last night. Hope everyone stays safe and the event gets to proceed without incident.

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:29 pm**

If the dog does something very exceptional in the judges eyes even with out bird work that can call a dog back for the second series BUT that dog better have another quality run WITH bird work or it can not be considered for placement for an AKC placement..as in AKC a dog must have bird work to be considered.

Page 36

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf

A dog that does not point cannot be placed. A
dog should not be called back to point after the running
of its brace except under the most extreme and
unusual circumstances.

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:30 pm**

does something very exceptional in the judges eyes

Page 36

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf

A dog that does not point cannot be placed. A
dog should not be called back to point after the running
of its brace except under the most extreme and
unusual circumstances.

I never understood that rule to mean that if the dog did something "exceptional" in the judges eyes they would call them back. I have gathered that in most judges opinion that "extreme and unusual" which resulted in lack of bird work would most likely be lack of bird work for every dog in the event. Usually when a dog or two find birds in a stake the "extreme and unusual" goes out the window. I think I have only seen one derby stake that conditions warranted a callback due to "extreme and unusual conditions". Would be interesting to hear others opinions on there interpretation of this rule.

Posted: **Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:54 pm**

Could be that the dog looked and handled where it made the judges seriously sit up in their saddles praying to see some bird to lock it in.
I hear that quite often where a dog had a super nice run but no bird work and therefore didn't place..being that this is a national trial with 12 dogs being called back for a second run sounds like the judges felt this dog was worth watching again

so with that said here is the format as per explain by the AKC Premium
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/field_tr ... m_list.pdf

FORMAT
The traditional format of the Gun Dog Championship has been modified
to fit the courses at Ames. The 2012 event will include one non-retrieving
Championship stake consisting of two series. Each series will be one hour in
length. Six braces will run per day – three in the morning and three in the
afternoon. There will be no running on Sundays. No ground will be covered twice
on the same day. Up to twelve dogs will be called back for a second series.
Placements will be awarded based on the dog’s combined performance from both
series. The trial will run on native quail and any other legally hunted upland
gamebirds that may be on the grounds – no birds will be released during the trial.
Both series will be judged in accordance with AKC Pointing Breed Gun Dog
standards. Judges will post “top dogs” on a daily basis. Being posted as a “top
dog” does not guarantee call-back.
Horseback handling is permitted; the host club will not provide horses.
AKC approved tracking collars used in accordance with AKC rules will be
permitted. Tracking collars will not be provided by the host club. All horses will
be kept at a FLAT WALK

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:04 am**

2 more Dogs of the Day without birds....

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:48 am**

This a tough place to run at. Even the "National Championship" had lots of hours that were birdless. Being in the right place and time when birds are on the move. There were a "few" with 4-6 finds in the 3 hours. But there were a lot more of 1-2 hours then pick up with out birds.

I give these judges credit knowing how hard these grounds can be running on wild birds only. Not the usual AKC trial. Where 2-3 birds are released during every brace. We take it for granted they we will find 1-5 bird contacts in the hour. A little incite to what the pointer boys game is like. You haft to hunt for what is there. Definitely the luck of the draw. :roll:

The dog of the day I think is a guide as to what they are looking for. They have a long ways, and many dogs till the end. Lots of goods dogs to come. They most likely will be picking some of the dogs so far with birds for the final 12.

IMHO they are letting participants know they are looking for ground coverage the Dog Of Day put down along with solid bird work. That is what is going to win this National Championship. They are not going to put up a less than "National Caliber" dog as a Winner.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:58 am**

hi-tailyn wrote:This a tough place to run at. Even the "National Championship" had lots of hours that were birdless. Being in the right place and time when birds are on the move. There were a "few" with 4-6 finds in the 3 hours. But there were a lot more of 1-2 hours then pick up with out birds.

I give these judges credit knowing how hard these grounds can be running on wild birds only. Not the usual AKC trial. Where 2-3 birds are released during every brace. We take it for granted they we will find 1-5 bird contacts in the hour. A little incite to what the pointer boys game is like. You haft to hunt for what is there. Definitely the luck of the draw. :roll:

The dog of the day I think is a guide as to what they are looking for. They have a long ways, and many dogs till the end. Lots of goods dogs to come. They most likely will be picking some of the dogs so far with birds for the final 12.

IMHO they are letting participants know they are looking for ground coverage the Dog Of Day put down along with solid bird work. That is what is going to win this National Championship. They are not going to put up a less than "National Caliber" dog as a Winner.

I added up all the finds and the time all the dogs were on the ground at The National. They averaged 1.25 finds per dog per hour.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:15 pm**

I heard that this is a one hour course, no birds being planted with multiple braces each day..... First brace of the day would have the best chance I guess.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:26 pm**

Bobs move a lot in the afternoon, too.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:27 pm**

Cajun Casey wrote:Bobs move a lot in the afternoon, too.

Even with that you have multiple braces running through there each day, bird work will be sparse.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:57 pm**

Another good reason to have it at mile post 9 next year!

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:47 pm**

Actually there are 3 braces in the morning, 3 in the afternoon, with no ground being covered twice in one day. I read/heard that birds were released sometime before the running of the Pointer Ch, but none before this event.

So, finding birds is certainly proving to be tough. And then there are the dogs finding birds, but the handlers not finding the dogs in time.

Tough event, tough to judge....gonna be an interesting ride all the way through.

This is probably a one time event at Ames. Glad it's happening, we'll just have to see how it all plays out.

Next year??????
Fuzz

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:32 pm**

So far no birds pointed on the morning courses.

Half the dogs of the day have bird work, half with out.

This is more like actual Wild Bird Hunting. You haft to hunt for the birds. Like they say its hunting not catching.

A wild bird trial is like hunting on public land. Typical AKC trial is like hunting at a shooting preserve. There is a place for both.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:12 pm**

Is this a FT or wild bird hunting? Lots of luck in each.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:50 pm**

It's not like wild bird hunting because its a field trial. Birds being farmed on the premisis and being released for an event last week is not wild birds.

Wild bird trials would be nice if there was no course and you followed the dog instead of handling the dog around the course.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:55 am**

This is soooo funny. I love it!

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:48 am**

ultracarry wrote:
Wild bird trials would be nice if there was no course and you followed the dog instead of handling the dog around the course.

Plenty of opportunity for that in the early fall Prairie Ch's...Montana/ND/Sask.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:40 pm**

Wyndancer wrote:
ultracarry wrote:
Wild bird trials would be nice if there was no course and you followed the dog instead of handling the dog around the course.
Plenty of opportunity for that in the early fall Prairie Ch's...Montana/ND/Sask.

I'm hurt, you didn't mention Idaho in there!!

Hate to tell ya' but you still gotta handle your dog from point A to point B in wild bird trials. They don't just get turned loose like balloons in the wind ending up where they may with folks chasing 'em after 'em...well, the ones that win don't anyway!!

Good luck to folks yet to run - time to put the thinking cap on and get aggressive. Froth that horse up and widen the courses a little. Don't end up birdless on a dry horse!!

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:44 pm**

From the looks of www.noaa.gov, they better tie the horses down.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:51 pm**

This advisory includes Hardeman county where Grand Junction is

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MEMPHIS TN
1130 AM CST FRI MAR 2 2012

ARZ008-009-017-018-026>028-035-036-048-049-058-MOZ113-115-
MSZ001>017-020>024-TNZ001>004-019>021-048>055-088>092-031130-
ALCORN-BENTON MS-CALHOUN-CARROLL-CHESTER-CHICKASAW-CLAY-COAHOMA-
CRAIGHEAD-CRITTENDEN-CROCKETT-CROSS-DESOTO-DECATUR-DUNKLIN-DYER-
FAYETTE-GIBSON-GREENE-HARDEMAN-HARDIN-HAYWOOD-HENDERSON-HENRY-
ITAWAMBA-LAFAYETTE-LAKE-LAUDERDALE-LAWRENCE-LEE AR-LEE MS-MADISON-
MARSHALL-MCNAIRY-MISSISSIPPI-MONROE-OBION-PANOLA-PEMISCOT-
PHILLIPS-POINSETT-PONTOTOC-PRENTISS-QUITMAN-RANDOLPH-SHELBY-
ST. FRANCIS-TALLAHATCHIE-TATE-TIPPAH-TIPTON-TISHOMINGO-TUNICA-
UNION-WEAKLEY-YALOBUSHA-
1130 AM CST FRI MAR 2 2012

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PORTIONS OF EAST ARKANSAS...
THE MISSOURI BOOTHEEL...NORTH MISSISSIPPI...AND WEST TENNESSEE.

.DAY ONE...THIS AFTERNOON AND TONIGHT

THERE IS A MODERATE RISK OF SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS TODAY...MAINLY
EAST OF A LINE FROM DYERSBURG TENNESSEE TO OXFORD MISSISSIPPI
WITH A SLIGHT RISK FOR SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS ACROSS THE REMAINDER OF
THE MIDSOUTH. THREATS FROM THESE STORMS INCLUDE VERY LARGE
HAIL...DAMAGING WINDS AND TORNADOES. THE GREATEST RISK OF OF
TORNADOES WILL BE ALONG AND EAST OF A LINE FROM UNION CITY TENNESSEE
TO IUKA MISSISSIPPI LATE THIS AFTERNOON. STORMS WILL CONTINUE INTO
THE EVENING HOURS...MAINLY NEAR THE TENNESSEE RIVER AND ALABAMA
STATE LINE.

ADDITIONALLY...STRONG GRADIENT WINDS ASSOCIATED WITH A STRONG
SURFACE LOW TRACKING TO THE GREAT LAKES WILL RESULT IN SUSTAINED
WINDS BETWEEN 25 AND 35 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 50 MPH. WIND SPEEDS
SHOULD DIMINISH AFTER THE COLD FRONT PASSES EARLY THIS EVENING.

.DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...SATURDAY THROUGH THURSDAY

NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:25 pm**

DGFavor wrote:
Wyndancer wrote:
ultracarry wrote:
Wild bird trials would be nice if there was no course and you followed the dog instead of handling the dog around the course.
Plenty of opportunity for that in the early fall Prairie Ch's...Montana/ND/Sask.
I'm hurt, you didn't mention Idaho in there!! Hate to tell ya' but you still gotta handle your dog from point A to point B in wild bird trials. They don't just get turned loose like balloons in the wind ending up where they may with folks chasing 'em after 'em...well, the ones that win don't anyway!!

Good luck to folks yet to run - time to put the thinking cap on and get aggressive. Froth that horse up and widen the courses a little. Don't end up birdless on a dry horse!!

My reference was for the tighter courses running treelines on liberated birds a week or so ago...

I'm also going to make the switch to shooting dog and bigger limited type stakes. My dog will be at the richardsons running in the hun and region ch.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:30 pm**

DGFavor wrote:
Wyndancer wrote:
ultracarry wrote:
Wild bird trials would be nice if there was no course and you followed the dog instead of handling the dog around the course.
Plenty of opportunity for that in the early fall Prairie Ch's...Montana/ND/Sask.
I'm hurt, you didn't mention Idaho in there!! Hate to tell ya' but you still gotta handle your dog from point A to point B in wild bird trials. They don't just get turned loose like balloons in the wind ending up where they may with folks chasing 'em after 'em...well, the ones that win don't anyway!!

Good luck to folks yet to run - time to put the thinking cap on and get aggressive. Froth that horse up and widen the courses a little. Don't end up birdless on a dry horse!!

Sorry pardner....just that Montana should have been split into East Montana and West Montana at the time of statehood. That 770 miles across is like an ocean.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:06 pm**

The trial this afternoon has been canceled...

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:12 pm**

This is as close to a wild bird trial as you can get on quail. Not to be confused with the Real wild bird trials up North on Sharptail, Prairie Chicken, Chuckars, etc.

The quail at Ames Plantation are pre released in late fall and left for the few trials to run on, including this one. I did hear rumor that they may have released some a couple weeks prior to the "National Championship". Other wise they have become somewhat Wild and learned how to avoid predators, including those on horseback.

Wild is a great equalizer. Shows how you can work as a team Quietly. Those handlers are seeing all the non productive are yelling and screaming for their dogs to handle. The dogs get pointed, but by the time handler gets there the birds are scurrying away.

More like Wild birds.

When you are pheasant, grouse hunting are you yelling and barking commands to your dogs on where to go? You probably don't get many in the bag if you do. Quiet and ease of handle is the game.

Even when I hunt in TX, KS, ND I still handle my dogs to get from point A to point B. I let the dogs cover and search the country far and wide, to find birds that are not on my path. We are still handling to get to point B.

The North prairies and Wild birds is where all the Top competitors go to let their dogs learn and experience how to find and handle Wild birds and pen birds.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:15 pm**

Weather.com looks really nasty, and tornadoes have touched down in Huntsville

kninebirddog wrote:The trial this afternoon has been canceled...

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