events search

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:15 pm

I need some help in finding all the FT near me. I am able to get all the AKC FT scheduals but want all the other FT that are within reasonable driving distance that I might be able to go to. Mostly to ride in the gallery.

I am not sure if the websites I pulled up are the right ones. some of the FT I looked up did not have dates or locations of the event.

in addition: on the akc site there are several FT not listed that were held last year. is it because the clubs have not submitted the dates yet?

is there a publication that has all the FT dates and locations?

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:29 pm

Find your local Super Intendent. Go to there website they will have some extra and more detailed info. Maybe shoot them an email to really figure out where to look.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:52 pm

Don't think there is a superintendant for a field trial. And yes, if the club hasn't got a date yet then it won't be listed. Some of the trials have been cancelled due to lower entries.

Ezzy

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:14 pm

Can check the American Field listing of trials at

http://www.americanfield.com/Pages/Fieldtrials.html

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:58 pm

I looked at that but do you have to be a member or subscribe to the Field in order to participate and recieve mailings of premiums and such?

I just am not sure of how things operate when it comes to entering a dog

I have only done it a couple times and I just phoned in the dogs name and stake entered in than I filled out some paper work when I got to the trial.

What would be considered standard procedure?

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:37 pm

With AKC you will have to submit the paperwork as specifiec for each event. You can get the names off the AKC Event Site, usually on Monday before the event they close and draw the running order.

With American Field, you will have to call the event secretary to see what each will require. You soon get used to the drill. These change the most, the other trials such as NSTRA are event specific as well.

To call a secretary and ask for a premium and get on their mailing list is the ticket for most if not all of the AKC events.

Pepper

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:59 pm

There is someone that organizes the entries and presents them to akc, could be wrong.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:06 pm

The sponsering club takes care of their own trials.

Ezzy

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:34 pm

Casper if you are interested in any NGSPA trials, the dates of those can change from year to year, but mostly they are approximately the same each year. We put a spreadsheet up on www.birddogposse.com with the dates of the last time a particular trial was held, and the scheduled dates for this fall's trials. It is under NGSPA, and something like Scheduale (not my spelling).

The NGSPA trials out your way are done for the year as far as I know. The schedule starts up again in Jan. with the Quail Championship in Ardmore, the Reg. 12 in AZ and the Reg. 7 in TX, all of which are pretty far from you. But the Reg. 9 was held in UT last year, at Milepost 9 I believe, and likely will be again. There is also a Regional in the northern CA, OR, WA area, but I have never been to that.

American Field trials must be adverstised in the Field, and they show up in the fixtures section, which is the link Chris gave you. Keep checking sometimes a trial does not show up in the field until shortly before it actually occurs. The people who generally run in the trials pass the info. around by word of mouth, email, etc. well ahead of time, so they do know. It is sometimes hard for a newcomer to find out.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:33 pm

Wagonmaster wrote:It is sometimes hard for a newcomer to find out.

As I am finding out

Well from the looks of it NGSPA is out for me since I cannot travel that great of a distance to hit trials on a regular basis so I will just have to stick with the AKC/weekend worrior stuff. Which is fine with me.

Thanks for the help

I am going ot go watch one this weekend (entries already closed so cant enter a dog)

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:46 am

Casper,

Here's a list of 435 clubs that are members of the Amateur Field Trial Clubs of America. Scroll through the list for clubs in your part of the country then contact their secy. and find out when, where and what stakes that club offers.
I know they used to run some big chukar championships around Winnemucca (sp?) NV

http://aftca.org/clubs/clubs_list.php

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:41 pm

But the Reg. 9 was held in UT last year, at Milepost 9 I believe, and likely will be again. There is also a Regional in the northern CA, OR, WA area, but I have never been to that.

Casper,
Everyone has listed the typical resources and you should be able to figure out most trials in your area. The Western Open is in Reno every spring, sometimes accompanied by either the Nat'l Am. Chukar AA or the Nat'l Am. Chukar SD. The Am. Championships typically run on the weekends. There are several great trialers in your area with wealth of field trial experience and very successful dogs. You've got a couple of the most successful amateurs in the country in Lori Steinshower and Torben Hansen living right there.

Milepost 9 is in Idaho 9 miles north of the Oregon border - a fairly easy drive for most Northern Nevadahoanites. It's a for real chukar venue. The AKC trials there don't run in the typical chukar country but are put on by some extremely nice and enthusiastic clubs. The AF championships (except the NGSPA which also pansies out and runs down low) run up in the good country and you'd see some awesome dogs. I don't go to the AKC trials there typically but am usually at the AF championships. We've got several good horses that ramble through that country without missing a beat and would be glad to help you out if you wanted to come watch, ride, compete.

John, One reason you haven't been to the Reg. 10 NGSPA in WA/OR is they hardly ever pull off running it. I don't think it's been run the past 2 or 3 years. We do run the Reg. 10 Am. SD at Tygh Valley,OR and the Reg. 10 Am. AA at Robertson Ranch near Payette, ID every year. Robertson's wouldn't be a bad drive from N. Nevada and we get Nevada'ans and California trialers every year. The Reg. 9 Am. SD is run near me, about 20", in American Falls, ID in the spring. Also not a bad drive and we get the occasional Nevada trialer but it often conflicts with the Western Open.

Tons of opportunities to go watch, ride, learn and meet some truly nice people.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:56 pm

Thank you Doug for the invite. I have my own horse now but need to get a saddle yet. But if I do wish to enter a dog I would very much appreciate the loan of a horse to handle from

AS far as the trials you attend that would be a suitable drive for me would it be possibel fo ryou to give me the names of the clubs that wil be holding those trials so I can get dates and locations. Not all the clulbs shown are holding trials in the same area as their club so I am not sure of which ones ot contact.

Much appreciation to everyone

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:19 am

ezzy333 wrote:The sponsering club takes care of their own trials.

Ezzy

Not always. If they dont have a akc rep in there club they dont.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:43 am

John, One reason you haven't been to the Reg. 10 NGSPA in WA/OR is they hardly ever pull off running it.

Yes, I wanted to go two years ago, but then it didn't happen, and you are right, it did not happen again last year. George Wilson and some other people put the Region 9 on in the spring. Mid-April as I recall. However, Casper, from what I hear about those "high grounds" you need to drag that truth out of Doug. They are somewhat treacherous. Just according to what I hear now. Have not ridden them. Only have been told not to go out and ride them. Without a helmet and body armor.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:31 am

Justin, I have never belonged to a club that had an AKC rep in it. All of the AKC trials we run, the club secretary or an appointed Trial sec, took care of the entries. I have never heard of an AKC trial being handled any differently.

The AKC shows are normally hired out to a show supt. so maybe that is what you are confused with.

Ezzy

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:07 am

Ezzy

I agree, the chair, secretary and committee of the club are responsible for planning and running the entire event.

Shows do use a super and at least some of the local retriever clubs use an online service for taking entries. Not sure of all the details of this but my neighbor was telling me of this.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:15 am

However, Casper, from what I hear about those "high grounds" you need to drag that truth out of Doug. They are somewhat treacherous. Just according to what I hear now. Have not ridden them. Only have been told not to go out and ride them. Without a helmet and body armor.

Well, there are a few rocks and some steep hills but it's not bad. We'd carry your body down to the main road so your family could pick it up.

I'll have to post some pics of the places we ride out chukar hunting. Last week I carefully crawled my way on foot down through a gap in some rimrock that last year we rode the horses down through with about 4" of snow on it. I couldn't believe how steep and treachorous it really was when it wasn't covered with snow. Don't know how we didn't kill ourselves. Our horses just get used to it I guess - they don't want to fall anymore than we do. On Stitch's first find in the Reg.8 AA over at the Richardson's he was buried up deep high in the rocks. My horse Dark just rambled right up, over, through whatever there was to get me there without missing a beat. Pat Waresk was judging and was amazed a horse could go that fast through those rocks. Didn't seem that fast to me with my eyes closed.

Well, anyway, I'm reminiscing again. The field trial grounds aren't that treachorous Casper, and if you're hunting chukars in Nevada you'd be pretty used to the terrain. Get that new horse out there as much as you can and he'll learn to do everything you need...then sell him to me.

petrey10 · Post by **petrey10** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:44 pm

do all field trials end in april or are there some in the summer months too? because I haven't seen very many. I would definitely like to get into one this summer if possible.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:55 pm

We sure enough could hold them. The dogs would have to run in 90 - 100 degree heat, but what the heck, that is their problem isn't it.

Seriously, you will find trials in the northern tier, MN, MI, etc. into May. We used to have a GSP club that ran Memorial Day weekend up here, I am not sure they do anymore because every few years it would be 95 in the shade and 90% humidity. That is hard on dogs.

The prairie trials usually start in the end of Aug. up in Can. and sometimes in ND. But it is not materially cooler up there than in NE or KS, just cooler in the a.m.s and p.m.s maybe.

Gotta give those dogs a break regardless of how hard their owners may want to go. A dog lasts about 10 minutes when it is over 90 and humid. Can't smell much with their tongue hitting their knees.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:37 pm

John

Not only do we still run that trial over Memorial day weekend, but it has grown into a 4 day event. Even with 4 days of running we still turn entries away every year because we are full. We will be back at Crow Hassan this year, Dan made sure to get the grounds early this year.

The St. Croix Valley Britt club holds a walking FT the first weekend in June every year. That wraps up the spring trial season in these parts and we usually don't start up again until the weekend after labor day.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:46 pm

Even with 4 days of running we still turn entries away every year because we are full.

Oh man, don't get me started. Geez, I try to ignore this practice but it drives me crazy. We've got to put our heads together and figure out a better system that doesn't compromise the validity of our trials. Any trial where the potential winner is turned away is just not right.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:30 pm

Doug

I agree with where your coming from on this, but at least for weekend AKC trials, where most of the help, club members, and participants that make these things go hold monday through friday 9-5 type work, a limit on entries is going to be a reality.

Even after a 3 or 4 day trial most club members that put it on and do the work are pretty wore out. We are lucky, our club has close to 90 households on the membership. But of those 90, figure only 6-10 people are there putting the events on. FTing is a tough sport to get people to take the next step of commitment to.

I always get ribbed alot because my entries are usually the first ones the event secretary gets. I see it is approved and open for entries and mail immediately, then follow up in one week and see if they were recieved. Guess what... I have never been told "you are on the waiting list". So looking at it from that point of view I never feel real bad when someone sends an entry in 2 days before closing and are upset because they didn't get in. This is assuming everything is on the up and up with the club putting on the event. I have friends that have had thier entries "lost in the mail" and never get in. But that is a whole different argument.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:40 pm

I have run in that trial many times. I finished my old wirehair in that trial. I only had the AGD to run him in, so I stayed at home with him in the air conditioning until it was close to time. They were about half way through the stake when I got there and it was obvious they were having trouble finding a walk away winner. The dogs had been out all weekend, running or staked out, in 95 degree heat, 90 % humidity. Ole Hans and me were fresh and cool from that nice AC at home and we walked away with it.

We have also had 5" of snow in trials in May up here. But not usually as late as Memorial Day weekend. You never know.

Doug they only have a one course ground up here. No room to go to multiple courses. They always post that entries will be accepted up to the number that can be run during daylight hours, or whatever the magic AKC language is. You can only push a trial crew so hard.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:46 pm

John

A few years ago they held an Amateur Walking Gun Dog stake at the memorial day trial and it was the same type of wheather about 92 in the shade and humid.

I had my old solid liver GWP entered and she ran the best course I had ever seen her run until about the 28 minute mark. She had been going hard but that little bit of shade given by that small ash tree was to tempting. She went laid in the shade, stretched out, and waited for me to arrive with a water jug.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:57 pm

I always get ribbed alot because my entries are usually the first ones the event secretary gets. I see it is approved and open for entries and mail immediately, then follow up in one week and see if they were recieved

Yup, I know people that do exactly that and still don't get their dogs in...but the last minute replacement AA judge somehow got his dogs in???

I don't disagree with limiting the field so that it can be completed on the weekend...I do disagree with the manner in which the field gets limited and the awarding of championship points to the winner of a stake with entries limited in this manner.

I've got a number of thoughts on this and when I get time to sit and type it out I'll start a thread and see where it goes.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:15 pm

As you know, that is not supposed to happen. The club may not pick and choose among entries, and they run the risk of being reported to the AKC and disciplinary action. It is, however, not a perfect world.

Hey, I am judging an AA in the spring, I wonder how late I can get mine in....

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:25 pm

Your judging tha AA huh. I guess when I talked with Dan the other day he said he had a call into you. I didn't know about what though.

Kind of nice having it back a bit closer to home, that hot shower in a guys own house always feels good. I probably be out there at least 3 days if not all four. I will probably "volunteer" to run the dog wagon a fair amount.

Plus probably run Boomer in a couple of GD stakes. Heck if the weather looks decent I will bring the camper and the whole troop out for a day or two again. Please make sure you stop by the camp for a bit of hospitality.... only after your done judging though. Don't need you any more prone to falling off the horse as you normally are.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:30 pm

Oh oh, I did not know I was judging your trial also. If Dan has tried to get me, I have not gotten the message, sometimes "they" get to them first, "they" being the other denizens of the house I live in. Dixon called and although we did not talk about trials, that, to me, was the wirehair club. If you guys want me to judge, it is possible, but I have not heard.

So you and Boomer are safe at the moment.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:42 pm

Maybe I misunderstood. That is tending to become more of a common occurance as I approach my 40th year here on this planet.

Yes we are still safe for the moment in regards to the judging panel. This darn snow is making it tough to keep our roading regiment consistant. I kepy him up with me this year rather than sending south. He seems to get a bit owly if we go more than 3 days without his exercise. I hope to get him out on some birds a few times over the next 3-4 weeks. First WFT is Feb 17-18 down at Branched Oak.

larue · Post by **larue** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:13 pm

the four lakes spring trial will have a non-retrieveing all age stake for the first time in a few years at pine island.There is a strong possibility
of running the all age into the old course along with the course we always run,as alot of brush cutting is being done in an attempt to get an hour course for the britts,perfect for a 30 minute all age gsp trial.
The corner has always been tough to turn the big running dogs at,if it works out,we will just keep driveing foward...
Mngsp,I will see you at branched oaks,me and jack marchese are coming,
I am running max,blaze,boise,maxine,and eva,while jack is running
howie,bonnie and shellie.It is sort of a practice run for the pointing dog
championship.I will see how well my old dogs can run that course,before i drop 135 per entry.

petrey10 · Post by **petrey10** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:59 pm

how many points does it take to be titled a champion??

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:13 pm

Larue

That is one heck of an entry. I expect between 12 and 16 entries up from this way. Should be one nice trial.

Would you or Jack be willing to scout for me, provided we aren't braced together. I kinda hope Boomer and Eva might get braced together, bring the best out of my dog.

We are kinda planning to be be at the Howard Johnson in town, cheap room, pool, restraunt, bar all on sight. Only about 15-20 minutes from grounds, stayed there with Esser a couple of years ago.

How is the old man doing? He might be the biggest to fear in a trial, especially a WFT.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:15 pm

An FC is 10 pts., an AFC is ten pts., but there are more wrinkles in the system. For AFC, all points must be earned under an Am. handler. For either, the dog must have a 3 pt. or better major. Also must have 4 pts. in retrieving stakes. May have 2 puppy pts. and 2 derby pts. max. Am. puppy and derby pts. have to be in Am. Walking Puppy or Am. Walking derby. There is more. You can find the rules at www.akc.org Do a search on "pointing breed field trial rules" . The important stuff is in Rule 14 I am pretty sure.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:28 am

If you already have a FC is it the same to put on an AFC? And visa versa.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:28 am

Brenda,

One ndifference about the AFC is that some of the points carry over to the FC. Another is that the points table (how many dogs in the stake = how many points) is more generous in AFC.

Best,

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:58 pm

What does it take for a FC to get an AFC? Do any of those points carry over? Or is that just for Amateur?

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:23 pm

No FC points carry over into AFC because the AFC points must all be earned under an Am. handler while the dog is running in Am. stakes. A max of 4 pts. from taking First Place in Am. stakes can be credited towards FC, but the rest must come from running in Open stakes, whether under an Am. or pro is irrelevant as long as the stakes are Open stakes. Also, the major for FC must be in an Open stake. A major from Am. stakes will transfer points up to the max of four, but still does not satisfy the FC Open major requirement.

So a dog that has an FC where all of the points were earned in open stakes, still has to get 10 Am. points to finish an FC. A dog with an AFC must earn 6 Open pts. including an Open major to finish FC. A dog could, in theory, get 4 Am. pts., finish its FC, and then have only 6 pts. to get the AFC because the 4 Am. pts. would count both ways.

larue · Post by **larue** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:17 pm

so,do am derby,and am puppy cross over to fc,along with an 4 point am gundog wins,or is it just 4 points in am,no matter if juvenile or adult stakes that cross over to the fc?

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:25 pm

You gotta understand, when I got familiar with the rules and finished my AFC, they did not have Am. puppy and derby, so I am only going by what I read in the Rules, but what I read is that any four pts. in Am. stakes will count towards the FC, so long as they are First placements in Ams. I would think they would also limit you to 2 Derby pts. and 2 Puppy pts. under the Rules, so no 2 pts. in Am. puppy and then another 2 pts. in Open Puppy, for example.

It is a max. of 4 Am. pts in total, so no 2 pts. Am puppy, 2 pts. Am. derby, 4 pts. AGD towards the FC. Just 4 pts.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:45 pm

DANG John!!! Thats a bunch to keep straight! We don't have to worry about anything but that 10 pts then....

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:48 pm

Yeah, that is the simplest way. Just go get ten Open pts. and you have an FC.

You have it done, so you don't need to worry.

petrey10 · Post by **petrey10** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:22 pm

one more question then....the more dogs in the competition the more points you get for first?? or no matter what you get how much for first?

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:51 am

in open,you get points for first place only until you get 25 dogs in the stake,for a 5 point win.At 25 dogs 2nd is worth 2 points.
the break down is close to this,4 to 7 dogs 1 point,7 to 12 2 points,
13 to 17, 3 points 18 to 24 4 points,anything over 25 5 points
I could be off on my numbers slightly.
The am stakes give more points for 2nd,third in smaller stakes,I do not remember them all..
The bottom line,you have to win to really get anyything done,that is why I hate the red ribbons.

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:56 am

at our walking trial in nov,we have yet to have a pro show up,so in my thinking if we offer am derby,and am puppy the winners will get points toward both fc/and afc if am puppy/derby stakes cross over for the same
credit as a open derby/puppy.
There are alot of fc's out there that need one or two am points to finish there afc.
I guess I will have to contact akc and ask them.

snips · Post by **snips** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:48 am

I guess I don't understand how Amt points can cross to FC points. But FC points cannot cross back over?

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:34 am

Well, it is in the Rules. If you want a policy underpinning for it, it would be because for an AFC, all points must be earned while the dog is running under an amateur handler. The way the AKC makes sure of that, is to only use points in Am. stakes for the AFC, where the handlers must be Ams. In Open stakes, dogs can be run by any kind of handler, pro or am. So it does no harm to allow some am. points to count towards the FC. They want the Open major and the majority of points to come in Open stakes to make sure the dog is capable of winning in Open competition, not "just" in am. competition. I put the quotes are "just" because these days there are lots of am. stakes that are tougher than the Opens, pros tend to quit running dogs in Open stakes once they are finished, but ams. often keep running them so the competition can be pretty stiff.

Probably it would do no violence to the Am. title if pts. earned in Open stakes while the dog was running under an Am. handler were to count towards FC. However, the AKC has no way of knowing the status of the handlers, and thus no way of being able to track the points other than the type of stake.

It is the way it is, and has always been that way.

snips · Post by **snips** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:24 am

Thanks, that explains it well.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:41 am

I am just the messenger.

You can find the Rules at http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPN ... UTTON.Y=12

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