The Lazy House Dogs vs. The Hardcore Chain Gang Crew

Post by **grant** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:02 pm

Start here

gsprescuewi · Post by **gsprescuewi** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:44 pm

Mine are both house dogs and hunters. They have the best of both worlds, if you ask me!

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:43 pm

Before I get started, I just want to say that my dogs live in the house. I spend hours every day interacting with them.

With that said, I want to point out some different viewpoints:

Many people have dogs that live in kennels. They take the dogs out of the kennel to exercise, train and hunt/trial.

At the other end are the PETA, HSUS, etc, folks that believe that any animal ownership is equivalent to slavery of a human being. To them we're *slave owners*. Further, we're murders because we hunt.

Who's "right"? Why? What support do you have for your opinion/belief?

What is "wrong" about the views? Why? What support?

Best regards,

gary · Post by **gary** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:25 pm

Grant,
I hope all you who are trial owners are not offended and obstain from posting, I caused this subject to get started in the first place.

I meerly wanted to point out that we don't all have flea's in our
homes.(My wife has a lot to say about that)

Another thing missing in your statements if they included WEIMS.
(which I'm Very famillar with).High point Weims(top 5) are in such demand to the point that Huge amounts of monitary value are being realised on breeding and selling pups.
The studs I'm familar with are being breed to death at $1000 a pop.

A good Trial (Broke Gun Dog) will hunt along side any GUN DOG breed (not includeing Open Dogs and most out-of -sight-pointers)and not run off as you put it.
Just a trialers two cents worth....Gary

larue · Post by **larue** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:32 pm

grant,,first off,lets look at broke trials,,and nstra as different games,,which they are...
A nstra dog can be a heck of a winning dog at 100 yards..if he handles,,never runs by a bird,,and has style..
In akc,and af broke stakes,,a dog must run bigger to consistantly win,,
some of the nicest dogs I have seen are pets first,,and trial dogs secound..,,my max sleeps in my bed every night,,..
The one huge advantage an am. has over a pro is the relationship with the dog,,the dog and the handler being on the same page,,
and haveing a dog who wants to please his owner above all else..
The pro does not have the time to develope this type of relationship
with a dog as he has too many dogs to work,,he does it through skill,and force...

This relationaship allows for a dog to run big,,and yet look for the handler,,and the handler haveing the trust in the dog to come around,,and to stand until he is found..

I fear a good am handler more than a pro,,

As far as horseback trial dogs hunting,,there are certainly trial dogs who are foot hunted on a frequent basis..mine all are...
I recently had max,and blaze point and hold ruffed grouse a few weeks ago..

I speak from akc/af trials mainly,,,I only ran 4 nstra events,,
2 weekends,a regonial,and the dog of the year,in amos..so my nstra experiance is very limited..

Post by **grant** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:34 pm

I rewrote my posts:

I just get real competitive sometimes…. I was frustrated to find out that a broke dog being steady to wing and shot, etc. works against you in a NSTRA trail. Some of the dogs that win are GOOD, but some run around like a wild dogs. More power to them for winning though. Talk about my dogs being house pets etc. just makes me want to win more. Before I run my mouth, I better win some huh!? =) Larue, what you said make a lot of since.

Grant

Post by **pear** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:03 am

Well my "lazy house dogs" ran a combined total of 56 events so far this season, in 5 states, and never missed a night at the foot of the bed. When we travel we pick motels that allow us to share the room with the dogs. These are hard working well traveled over loved GSP's that finish well at the end of the day. So in my opinion your friend will be just what you make them.
Thanks, Randy"pear"Bauman,
Top Gun Nikki von Seeker MH Prize I
Top Gun Diamond in the Rough 1X UFTA & NBDCA FC Prize III
American Heritage "Arti"fact 11 points toward UFTA AM FC

sdgord · Post by **sdgord** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:06 am

Well I have one dog that spends six months on the road with a pro handler and the rest of the year on my couch. She is hunted about forty five days a year on wild birds in South Dakota. It normally takes two days to get her re acclimated to home life. Going back with her handler takes a couple of weeks. In my mind it is the best life a big running bird dog can have.
My younger dog hunts as hard as the older dog just does not have the wheels and a twelve oclock tail. She hunts every day with the older dog, though not normally together, too hard to watch two dogs at once. The younger gets more one on one attention when the older is away, she gets three to four days a week in the country finding birds and working on her skills. The rest of the time she is in the house. Right now she is sitting on my wifes lap trying to convey some important message.
The more people I meet the better I like my dogs.SDGORD

larue · Post by **larue** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:37 am

grant,,the most successfull nstra dog I had the privalidge of knowing,,was caden's rowdy,,,he was completely broke,,and was kept that way,,and was a muliple nstra champion..

If you are looking for broke stakes,,try some akc walking trials,,
I know of some 150 ,200 yard dogs who do very well in weekend events..if they look nice on point,and make no mistakes,and are consistant..

Post by **grant** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:27 pm

Thanks guys!

I'm not worried about it too much. If it really botherd me, I should shut up and just not compete in the event. I just get excited and competitive. I prefer my crew to be steady to wing and shot, just for saftey and style. Overall, I just look forward to winning stuff with my dogs, that I've trained and worked. It will be a good feeling.

Rusti's Mom · Post by **Rusti's Mom** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:05 pm

What I have found is if you want your dog to do AKC Hunt Tests, or NAVHDA Tests, do that first. Then, do the NSTRA deal.

When we tried NSTRA, I couldn't stand the thought that other's dogs were not broke, and guys were firing at the flush. I was scared to death that someone was going to shoot my dog. After two trials, we decided not to "ruin" Rusti by letting her break at the gun.

Just my .02. Rowdy was an exceptional dog, as is Dr. N's CJ.

Pat

goddog · Post by **goddog** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:57 pm

I see there are different definitions of a broke dog. My dogs will stand W&S and look good doing it all day with a popgun. Yet, they will only stand a few after being sent to retrieve the kill. I wouldn’t’ t consider my dogs broke but for the most they are good enough what AKC call for. And I agree with Pat, it does not take more then a few NSTRA trials to undo the steady wing shot and kill in dogs. Now that NBHA got away without the retrieve, NSTRA is the only trial that reports retrieving every bird the dog comes in contact with as part of the format.

SC

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:26 pm

Justus is an indoor dog. He plays indoors, sleeps indoors, and takes the other half of my bed in the mornings when Danyelle goes off to teach kiddygarteners.

Of course, that doesn't stop him from running and hunting himself into near exhaustion on a cold and snowy day for me. When we were all done last weekend, he ate his breakfast and slept the entire ride home, and then took a nap once we got there.

I don't think it matters if a dog is kept indoors or outdoors. They all enter "hunt-mode" when it's time, and then genetics and training take over.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:49 am

I don't think it matters if a dog is kept indoors or outdoors. They all enter "hunt-mode" when it's time, and then genetics and training take over.
_________________
- Steven

Well said!

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:59 am

Yes, but as a practical matter someone with several dogs isn't going to be able to keep them inside. Some or all of the dogs are going to be kenneled. Two is my limit!

Best,

gary · Post by **gary** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:29 am

Does anyone have there Pointers,Retrivers running loose unkenneled a home in mild climate.

I'm not suggest it, but my Old Pointer,Retriver Weim want's to go with me on the ranch and he is misserable in house or kennel.
He always stays at house(unkenneled)and barks if anything(people,coyotes etc) comes up.He seems to know the difference between a Rifle and a Shotgun(starts jumping around like kid).

Best to happy dogs......Gary

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:58 am

I think a top winning dog can live either place and still win. 2 of my top winners have been house dogs, and I think the bond is truely much better when you live together, unfortuatly I don`t have room for all my favorites so some live in the kennel. I am at the kennel a good part of the day tho, so share alot of time with them too. It is not the same as the house dog tho. A good dog is a good dog and there light will shine either way.

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:05 pm

I have 4 at all times, sometimes 5 in the house with us...and our 4 kids. During the summer, I had 12 adults here...all in the house. 2 springs ago, I had 26 dogs in the house...but that was with 2 litters down. Ifyour house is big enough (and your patience

) there isn't any problem. Everyone learns their place in the house and it works out good. I do kennel up the younger ones when I leave, but it's a 5' X 6' kennel with a run off of that. When I'm home, the dogs have the option to run around the yard all day, they have 2-3 acres that they can run in, but at night, they're all inside, sleeping where they choose.

Like it was mentioned earlier, a good dog is a good dog, but I think having the dogs around you all the time makes for a better relationship/understanding for each other.

sudiegirl · Post by **sudiegirl** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:32 pm

Country-Side Breeders said: "Like it was mentioned earlier, a good dog is a good dog, but I think having the dogs around you all the time makes for a better relationship/understanding for each other."

patty,
SUCH a good point!! since these are our first birddogs to train, having the dogs inside with us and establishing a pecking order has been especially beneficial to us since my dogs are not the only "pups" in training!!

having the dogs around us all day is like a continuous training session for all of us. i know we would not have had the amount of success that we have had with these guys had they been living out in a kennel. all dogs are different, so the way one acts in a situation may be completely different that the way another will. the more time you spend with your dog, the better you will know each other. and understanding what your dog is trying to tell you and vise versa makes it SO much easier to be successful in what you're trying to accomplish!!!

alphiwolfi · Post by **alphiwolfi** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:54 pm

You brought up some good questions. I work in an animal lab so I guess that I am an animal abuser. Not!
I make sure that the animals are comfortable, have entertainment, are paid attention to and well cared for. Where would dogs be without us? Alone or in packs getting exterminated due to uncontrolled leadership and unorganization of the pack. They are not wild. So how can it be cruel to live with our dogs? We spoil them, love them, care for them, and look out for their best interest. That is, people like you and I who do keep our dogs in the house and include them as part of the family. Dogs are not humans! They are happy being given commands and learning new activities, tricks and skills. They want to please their owners. I am against animal abuse, but not for animal rights groups because they take things too far in my opinion. Most people that have problem dogs did not research their breed, or take time to learn more about what to expect, and how to communicate with their dogs. They are at fault for their dog's behavior. I better stop here before I write a book.

I enjoyed getting those feelings off my chest.

Thank you for caring.

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