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problem with long ranging

problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:49 am

hi i have a two and a half year old female english pointer. finds birds ok. i having problems with her ranging to far and eventually loosing interest in my commands. she is a timid dog but seems to have stubborn qualities. she is easily excited. need help. has anyone else had this problem and what can i do?
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby cjuve » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:01 am

How is shed bred? At this age IMO th easiest way to get a handle on a dog is with some check cord /whistle work progressing to e-caollar/whistle work, with a soft dog pay attention to body language
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:31 am

she is an english pointer with elhew. yes, i have been back to check cord. need to do this more. i never used the whistle and don't know how to. i use verble commands: here, sit, heal, down, no, alright and woe. need a command to work closer. i have tried the e-collar and don't like to use it, need more work on check cord maybe. very frustrating. i hunt heavy cover for patridge and woodcock.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby cjuve » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:47 am

IMO most dogs have a pre determined range that they will eventually seek given the confidence. In this case it seems that your comfort level is different than hers, you will most likely have to hack her to get her to stay within your comfort zone.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:58 am

hack? do u mean with e-collar? i am worried that the e-collar may have a negative effect on the dog.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby cjuve » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:01 am

dblent wrote:hack? do u mean with e-collar?

Aggressive Verbal Handling
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:03 am

ok, but is the command "here" given? i don't want the dog to come to me everytime, but want it closer.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby cjuve » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:41 am

dblent wrote:ok, but is the command "here" given? i don't want the dog to come to me everytime, but want it closer.



Teach her to turn and use the turn command to keep her close. Or buy an Astro
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:37 pm

should I ask what an "Astro" is?
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:42 pm

just found out....it"s a dog tracking system by garmin or a dog from the Jetson's. lol
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby birddog1968 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:36 pm

I have found with Pointers you also need to give up a little of your feelings of not being in total control....let the dog work.

Hacking is not an option with me (I refuse to hack a dog), I let them roll and we learn how to hunt together in a manner that works for both of us.

It takes some work adjusting your expectations but if the dog is NOT a runoff then you will learn to enjoy hunting behind the dog at the range she
naturally works. Work on your commands for getting her to turn (I use two whistle blasts or my voice Hup Hup....) and generally only use those if
I make a direction change, Otherwise I hunt behind the dog in silence. You can also move the dog into tighter /heavier cover to close her up some.

If the dog wants birds shot for her she will adjust to make that happen and you will let her roll where she's comfortable.....

Hope that all makes sense....
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:22 am

birddog1968 wrote:I have found with Pointers you also need to give up a little of your feelings of not being in total control....let the dog work.

Hacking is not an option with me (I refuse to hack a dog), I let them roll and we learn how to hunt together in a manner that works for both of us.

It takes some work adjusting your expectations but if the dog is NOT a runoff then you will learn to enjoy hunting behind the dog at the range she
naturally works. Work on your commands for getting her to turn (I use two whistle blasts or my voice Hup Hup....) and generally only use those if
I make a direction change, Otherwise I hunt behind the dog in silence. You can also move the dog into tighter /heavier cover to close her up some.

If the dog wants birds shot for her she will adjust to make that happen and you will let her roll where she's comfortable.....

Hope that all makes sense....


thanks for your help. just had her out again yesterday. she made a couple of solid points fairly close to me but she still tends to "runoff" or hunt on her own far away where i can't hear her any more. hopefully this will change with age, she is 2.5 years old. p.s. her father comes from the Crow's Little Joe/Attitude bloodlines and her mother is elhew/fiddler bloodline. she looks like your pup.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby BigShooter » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:21 pm

We've talked about this many times on this site before. For many of us range doesn't mean nearly as much as Wagonmaster puts it: nose, bird sense & manners. What you shouldn't tolerate is a dog a long ways off, bumping birds. I've said this before, I've seen dogs that are range wise. If they are near you they have good manners but they like to escape away to the front so they can do some self hunting & screw around without hearing about it from you. IMO with a dog like that the most important issue is to get them broke to wing & shot. You want them rock solid on points and NEVER moving before you release them. Then you won't care nearly as much if they are working a long ways ahead of you because when you find them they will be holding a bird for you.

If you have this type of problem it tends to become worse & more ingrained/harder to correct with the passage of time.

I think you also need to work more on basic obedience. Never give a command unless you can enforce it. This is normally accomplished at the end of a lead or check cord. Sounds like your dog is blowing you off.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:48 pm

BigShooter wrote:We've talked about this many times on this site before. For many of us range doesn't mean nearly as much as Wagonmaster puts it: nose, bird sense & manners. What you shouldn't tolerate is a dog a long ways off, bumping birds. I've said this before, I've seen dogs that are range wise. If they are near you they have good manners but they like to escape away to the front so they can do some self hunting & screw around without hearing about it from you. IMO with a dog like that the most important issue is to get them broke to wing & shot. You want them rock solid on points and NEVER moving before you release them. Then you won't care nearly as much if they are working a long ways ahead of you because when you find them they will be holding a bird for you.

If you have this type of problem it tends to become worse & more ingrained/harder to correct with the passage of time.

I think you also need to work more on basic obedience. Never give a command unless you can enforce it. This is normally accomplished at the end of a lead or check cord. Sounds like your dog is blowing you off.


i will do more basic traing and try to resolve the problem...and it does seem like the dog is blowing me off. more birds will help and actually shooting more will help even more. interesting to see what she would do if the hunting area was polluted with game. hunting woodcock and ruffed grouse and they're scarce at times.
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby birddog1968 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:00 pm

dblent wrote:
BigShooter wrote:We've talked about this many times on this site before. For many of us range doesn't mean nearly as much as Wagonmaster puts it: nose, bird sense & manners. What you shouldn't tolerate is a dog a long ways off, bumping birds. I've said this before, I've seen dogs that are range wise. If they are near you they have good manners but they like to escape away to the front so they can do some self hunting & screw around without hearing about it from you. IMO with a dog like that the most important issue is to get them broke to wing & shot. You want them rock solid on points and NEVER moving before you release them. Then you won't care nearly as much if they are working a long ways ahead of you because when you find them they will be holding a bird for you.

If you have this type of problem it tends to become worse & more ingrained/harder to correct with the passage of time.

I think you also need to work more on basic obedience. Never give a command unless you can enforce it. This is normally accomplished at the end of a lead or check cord. Sounds like your dog is blowing you off.


i will do more basic traing and try to resolve the problem...and it does seem like the dog is blowing me off. more birds will help and actually shooting more will help even more. interesting to see what she would do if the hunting area was polluted with game. hunting woodcock and ruffed grouse and they're scarce at times.


I see , my mistake, I just saw you were hunting in deep cover......
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby dblent » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:07 pm

yes, we hunt in deep cover. like to see how she hunts for pheasant in open country...
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Re: problem with long ranging

Postby birddog1968 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:12 pm

dblent wrote:yes, we hunt in deep cover. like to see how she hunts for pheasant in open country...



Usually, they will hunt the range necessary to produce game for the gun.....Mine close right up in heavier grass/ phez cover and stretch
it out on short grass for say....sharptails.

Not sure if this is a good idea but....you might try a game farm/preserve with heavy stocking of quail....this should slow the dog down
and make it hunt closer.....Maybe somebody can chime in an tell us if this might be a decent idea. Seems like it would be to me....
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