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Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby JonBailey » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:29 am

https://www.petition2congress.com/ct...omments/page/2

Please pass it on.

In 1934, congress passed the federal firearms act, restricting so-called destructive devices. In 1968, the Gun Control Act of 1968, put even more UNCONSTITUTIONAL gun control up, making it illegal to own guns which aren't sporting. The purpose of the constitution is not for sporting, but as the last resort to keep tyranny out of the U.S government. In 1986, on the Gun Owner's Privacy act, there was a Hugh's amendment making it illegal to own automatic weaponry made after 1986. Everyone of these acts are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, because the 2nd amendment's last words are 'shall not be infringed'.

In all the acts and years stated above, there was either a Democrat President or an ex-Democrat President in office at the respective time. Ronald Reagan was perhaps the first RINO in American politics history. I did vote for Reagan in 1984 but I am not happy about his track record on gun rights.


Someone from New Port Richey, FL writes:

The 1968 gun control act was passed by very corrupt politicians like Lyndon B. Johnson. Aside from all the mis-appropriated power and deceit, it was not right to pass in the first place. We all know this. It's a matter of admitting it.


Someone from Appleton, WI writes:

There were felons when our forefathers wrote the constitution. When you paid your debt to society ALL INALIENABLE RIGHTS SHOULD BE RESTORED!
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby cjhills » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:29 am

There is more to the second amendment. "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state," What does that mean?...………………….Cj
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby ezzy333 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:42 am

the short answer is it means that since a well regulated militia is needed occasionally we need our citizens armed and trained to shoot when or if they are called to protect our country and ourselves. We would be of little use if none of us were ready to serve without months or years of training to do anything if there is an immediate need. And of course back in that day the government was not capable of supplying the guns or training on a short term emergency.


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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby mnaj_springer » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:26 am

cjhills wrote:There is more to the second amendment. "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state," What does that mean?...………………….Cj


That portion is just a prefatory clause to explain purpose. There have been supreme court rulings on this. The prefatory clause explains purpose but it does not limit or expand the operative clause.

The operative clause is: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That is the portion that protects the rights of individuals.

So back to your question of what does that mean? Well it explains the purpose of the right. But the militia in the back at the time of the composition of the Bill of Rights was not the army or navy or any branch of the uniformed services. It was the people of the country (to be specific it was able-bodied men). The authors recognized that to be a free people, a free nation, with God given freedoms, we must protect ourselves from those who wish to remove those freedoms (such as the government). Also, "well-regulated" at the time did not mean what it does today. It does not mean regulations or laws or rules. At the time the phrase meant something in regular working order or in good order. So basically, in today's language, 2A says, "The armed citizens of the USA, in good working order, being neccesary to protect freedoms, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby cjhills » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:12 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
cjhills wrote:There is more to the second amendment. "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state," What does that mean?...………………….Cj


That portion is just a prefatory clause to explain purpose. There have been supreme court rulings on this. The prefatory clause explains purpose but it does not limit or expand the operative clause.

The operative clause is: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That is the portion that protects the rights of individuals.

So back to your question of what does that mean? Well it explains the purpose of the right. But the militia in the back at the time of the composition of the Bill of Rights was not the army or navy or any branch of the uniformed services. It was the people of the country (to be specific it was able-bodied men). The authors recognized that to be a free people, a free nation, with God given freedoms, we must protect ourselves from those who wish to remove those freedoms (such as the government). Also, "well-regulated" at the time did not mean what it does today. It does not mean regulations or laws or rules. At the time the phrase meant something in regular working order or in good order. So basically, in today's language, 2A says, "The armed citizens of the USA, in good working order, being neccesary to protect freedoms, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Both you and Ezzy are just giving your opinions. You must Have Forgot the IIMO. Unless you are a Supreme Court Justice it means less than nothing. I am pretty sure god did not give us the right to own guns. If it was that simple why don't the Justices Agree on every thing ...........Cj

I
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby mnaj_springer » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:42 am

cjhills wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:
cjhills wrote:There is more to the second amendment. "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state," What does that mean?...………………….Cj


That portion is just a prefatory clause to explain purpose. There have been supreme court rulings on this. The prefatory clause explains purpose but it does not limit or expand the operative clause.

The operative clause is: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That is the portion that protects the rights of individuals.

So back to your question of what does that mean? Well it explains the purpose of the right. But the militia in the back at the time of the composition of the Bill of Rights was not the army or navy or any branch of the uniformed services. It was the people of the country (to be specific it was able-bodied men). The authors recognized that to be a free people, a free nation, with God given freedoms, we must protect ourselves from those who wish to remove those freedoms (such as the government). Also, "well-regulated" at the time did not mean what it does today. It does not mean regulations or laws or rules. At the time the phrase meant something in regular working order or in good order. So basically, in today's language, 2A says, "The armed citizens of the USA, in good working order, being neccesary to protect freedoms, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Both you and Ezzy are just giving your opinions. You must Have Forgot the IIMO. Unless you are a Supreme Court Justice it means less than nothing. I am pretty sure god did not give us the right to own guns. If it was that simple why don't the Justices Agree on every thing ...........Cj

I


It’s not my opinion. You can look into the Supreme Court rulings regarding these things. If you’re actually curious you’ll look. If you really don’t care you won’t look.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby cjhills » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:32 am

Been there.
Do all Supreme Court Justices agree on the interpretation of the second amendment? Do they ever agree? Are the Justices who have a different opinion than yours wrong? Do you always agree with the Supreme Courts opinion?
Do you think The Native Americans should have the right to net walleyes in Mille Lacs lake during the spawn,because of an outdated and foolish treaty. The supreme court did 5 to 4. I was there for that one. Two judges slept through the whole thing. Do you think once the Supreme Court makes a decision, it should be written in stone. If not, why should they be wrong the first time and get it right the second time and should the laws change every time political makeup of the supreme court changes?
The meaning of the word "people" is a major debate when trying to interpret the meaning second amendment.
I can't find any basis for packing a gun being a god given right. I do see where using to kill somebody is not a god given right.............Cj
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby mnaj_springer » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:35 pm

I don’t also agree with every Justice, but when they have a majority ruling it is legally binding. So I guess that’s that. And bringing Mille Lacs into the conversation is like comparing apples to plastic chairs. Not even in the same ball park.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:38 pm

I know the majority of people on this site won't agree with me....but I think this is a terrible initial post. We have WAY too few gun laws in this country. The idea of softening them is ludicrous. We have far more gun crime than all other wealthy industrialized countries because we have more guns and less restrictions on types of guns. I don't want my neighbor having a vehicle mounted .50 cal automatic weapon on his truck the day he finds his wife cheating on him and he goes nuts while my children are playing in the yard.
It is time for hunters and sportsmen to separate themselves from the gun nuts. The fact that the NRA and republican party try to lump us all together is inaccurate presents a false front causing the rest of society to think we're all batshit crazy, when in reality only half of us are batshit crazy.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby ezzy333 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:55 pm

BuckeyeSteve wrote:I know the majority of people on this site won't agree with me....but I think this is a terrible initial post. We have WAY too few gun laws in this country. The idea of softening them is ludicrous. We have far more gun crime than all other wealthy industrialized countries because we have more guns and less restrictions on types of guns. I don't want my neighbor having a vehicle mounted .50 cal automatic weapon on his truck the day he finds his wife cheating on him and he goes nuts while my children are playing in the yard.
It is time for hunters and sportsmen to separate themselves from the gun nuts. The fact that the NRA and republican party try to lump us all together is inaccurate presents a false front causing the rest of society to think we're all batshit crazy, when in reality only half of us are batshit crazy.
And then again that just maybe your opinion and there maybe just as many or more that have different opinion all together.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby mnaj_springer » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm

BuckeyeSteve wrote:I know the majority of people on this site won't agree with me....but I think this is a terrible initial post. We have WAY too few gun laws in this country. The idea of softening them is ludicrous. We have far more gun crime than all other wealthy industrialized countries because we have more guns and less restrictions on types of guns. I don't want my neighbor having a vehicle mounted .50 cal automatic weapon on his truck the day he finds his wife cheating on him and he goes nuts while my children are playing in the yard.
It is time for hunters and sportsmen to separate themselves from the gun nuts. The fact that the NRA and republican party try to lump us all together is inaccurate presents a false front causing the rest of society to think we're all batshit crazy, when in reality only half of us are batshit crazy.


Respectfully Steve, I think your opinion is ill-informed regarding the gun laws and crimes in this country.

So first of all, I will lay out some facts. According to a few recent articles from Vox (a VERY left leaning outlet that pushes HAAARRRDDD for gun control), there are 120 guns per 100 people in the USA (pop= approx 325mil) so around 390 million guns. Also according to Vox (again keeping in mind their strong bias), in 2016 there were 39,000 gun deaths, including suicide, accidents, and justified shootings by both civilians and police. That works out to .01% of guns being involved in a death each year... or in other words, each year 99.99% of guns DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT kill anyone. Despite having more guns than ANY other country, our gun owners are incredibly safe and responsible.

Anyway, exactly what laws would you pass to fill in the gaps regarding the "WAY too few" laws we have? Which laws do you believe we are missing?

To be fair, I'm not saying we should make automatic weapons as easy to obtain as shotguns. I'm just curious what you specifically mean by too few gun laws?
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby cjhills » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:38 am

Make America safe. Repeal the 14th? By executive order? Really?
Do we really believe that we can continue having 40,000 gun deaths a year and three or four mass shootings a month? I don't think so. Good guys with a gun obviously don't work. Eventually laws will be passed restricting guns. Problem is if gun owners and the NRA just say no to everything, what kind of laws will be passed. Every responsible gun owner needs to give some thought to how to control guns.....Cj
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby mnaj_springer » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:26 am

cjhills wrote:Make America safe. Repeal the 14th? By executive order? Really?
Do we really believe that we can continue having 40,000 gun deaths a year and three or four mass shootings a month? I don't think so. Good guys with a gun obviously don't work. Eventually laws will be passed restricting guns. Problem is if gun owners and the NRA just say no to everything, what kind of laws will be passed. Every responsible gun owner needs to give some thought to how to control guns.....Cj


The 14th amendment? Stay on topic here.

You’re making an argument based on emotion, which doesn’t do much. So let’s get back to facts... Fact: there are anywhere from 500,000 to 2 million defensive uses of firearms each year (according to the CDC). Let’s take the low number for argument’s sake. That means at minimum, 461,000 more lives are saved/defend by firearms than lost to them.

And again, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, 99.99% of guns in the USA ARE NOT involved in a gun death each year.

What other specific laws and measures do you believe need to be passed?

I wouldn’t say we have a gun problem. We have a suicide, gang violence, and mass shooting problem.

And with the mass shootings, using the most liberal statistics, they are concentrated on the east coast and California. I’d say it’s more of an urban issue.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby Steve007 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:20 am

cjhills wrote:Make America safe. Repeal the 14th? By executive order? Really?
Do we really believe that we can continue having 40,000 gun deaths a year and three or four mass shootings a month? I don't think so. Good guys with a gun obviously don't work. Eventually laws will be passed restricting guns. Problem is if gun owners and the NRA just say no to everything, what kind of laws will be passed. Every responsible gun owner needs to give some thought to how to control guns.....Cj


There are all kinds of statistics proving the falsity of this. Look them up.. I question your 40K figure, but most of those "deaths" are suicides or teen gangbangers whose deaths reduces crime and saves taxpayers keeping them in prison forever. And there are innumerable crimes PREVENTED as a result of a would-have-been victim having a gun.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby Settertude » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:28 am

Regardless of statistics, which I believe support gun ownership by the way--any additional restrictions on purchasing and or owning guns will only serve to raise the percentage of guns in the hands of bad guys. This cannot be successfully debated.
Less anyone site as example any other nation---the USA is not any other nation.

There are plenty of laws on the books that aren't rigorously enforced. LE should get on it and route out the bad guys in cities and suburban areas; coming down much harder on the types of street violence we've seen in placing such as Baltimore. LE is hampered. Perhaps an Elliot Ness type campaign?
In addition, we need to build a system of mental health facilities again.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby AZSetter » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:03 pm

I always cringe when I hear the argument that sportsmen and hunters need to separate from the "gun nuts" in regards to gun control.
In reality we do not need to control an inanimate object, we need to control deranged, sick or criminal people from the unlawful use of them.

The second amendment never was and never will be about hunting. You may or may not think there is a need for those scary "black guns". Let's assume for a minute that there is not. So, the sportsmen and hunters stand back and allow the government to severely limit them or maybe even eradicate them, I don't think they can do it but just stay with me on this.
Along those same lines, you may or may not think there is a case for high capacity magazines. So, we stay out of the fight and those magazines go away.
One could also argue that a "true sportsman" doesn't "need" a semi automatic gun. Semi autos, gone.
In fact, do you really "need" a pump shotgun? I would argue that you don't. Many birds and small game has been taken thru the course of time with single shots and double guns. I fact I'm sure the tree hugger animal lover types would agree that that would be more sporting. Pump guns, gone.
Now, along comes our government and those same tree hugger animal lover types to take your double barrels. Can you truly argue that you "need" them? You can buy all the food you want at the store and truth be told spend a heel of a lot less money than we spend on hunting. Also, can you make a good sound argument that a shotgun is not about the most devastating close range weapon there is?
My point is, when that day comes, who will stand with you and help you preserve your way of life? Not those "gun nuts" because they already lost theirs, in part because you were not there for them.
To be certain we have problems. But, those problems are with the people misusing guns. I can't imagine anyone choosing not to use a gun in crime because we finally have "enough" gun laws. For god's sake it's already against the law to shot someone. Is there a magic gun law that can trump that? I will gladly admit that I don't have the answer but it is not more control of a tool that is used safely and lawfully the overwhelming majority of the time. Maybe to put it in perspective we should think about how many rounds of ammo are fired per year safely vs. how many are fired irresponsibly or illegally.
Gun ownership is a right. There are gun owners and non gun owners. You are either pro gun or anti gun. We "must" stand together lest we fall alone.
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Re: Here is a thread to a petition to REPEAL gun control.

Postby mnaj_springer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:07 am

Steve007 wrote:
cjhills wrote:Make America safe. Repeal the 14th? By executive order? Really?
Do we really believe that we can continue having 40,000 gun deaths a year and three or four mass shootings a month? I don't think so. Good guys with a gun obviously don't work. Eventually laws will be passed restricting guns. Problem is if gun owners and the NRA just say no to everything, what kind of laws will be passed. Every responsible gun owner needs to give some thought to how to control guns.....Cj


There are all kinds of statistics proving the falsity of this. Look them up.. I question your 40K figure, but most of those "deaths" are suicides or teen gangbangers whose deaths reduces crime and saves taxpayers keeping them in prison forever. And there are innumerable crimes PREVENTED as a result of a would-have-been victim having a gun.


To be fair to Mr. Hills, I believe he got the 40,000 death number from me. I had stated 39,000 in 2016, but I also noted the source, Vox, is extremely liberal, and the number included all forms of gun death.

So yes, that is a poor number to use when talking about the actual impact of guns on innocent lives, but we can also use the numbers the “antis” use and show them how safe guns are (see my earlier posts).

Mark Twain once said... “There are three kinds of lies... lies, "bleep" lies, and statistics.”
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