No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Hookadooka BirdDogs
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No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Hookadooka BirdDogs » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:32 pm

Predation hunting of crows, grackles, sparrows, etc. will be steel only. Your rights are next.
(http://www.shootingwire.com/story/231545)
Pointed birds: If it's flyin', it's dyin'.

In 1969, the only woodstock I saw was on my M-14.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:46 pm

I believe that decision only affects the FWS depradation work by the agency...still, it shows a mindset.

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3Britts
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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:12 pm

Hey, I'll bite.

I, for one, have no problem not using lead in my shotgun.
The mindset is one of not poisoning everything with all of that extra lead that doesn't hit the game.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:39 pm

That kind of mindset is why we have already lost alot of our rights & will continue because it's not going to hurt it's good for everyone.
When we can't afford ammunition any longer who will it hurt not me I'll be dead by then,I guess that's how I shouuld look at it.
More restrictions means fewer hunters,shooters,Etc. The antis are winning slowly but surely.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Hookadooka BirdDogs » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:27 pm

Mountaineer wrote:I believe that decision only affects the FWS depradation work by the agency...still, it shows a mindset.
Yes, but they are/were trying to ban lead for all forms of hunting. Soon we won't be able to use jigs or lead sinkers for fishing. Just one more freedom going down the tubes. Down the road I guess they'll have an asterisk for trap and skeet records. lead records vs. post lead records. Some govt. agency will want to close all shooting ranges to dig up all the lead and dispose of it properly. When does it end? Ask Australians, Canadians, etc. They know!
Pointed birds: If it's flyin', it's dyin'.

In 1969, the only woodstock I saw was on my M-14.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:32 pm

That type of mindset just makes me laugh. An over reaction if ever I saw one.
You might want to start taking that lead out of the birds before you eat them. It's starting to have
a negative effect on your thinking process.
Now, before you answer back, at least read the article and see what they are really talking about.

And as for not using lead for jigs and sinkers, they have aready been banned in many areas without hurting the fishing industry or the fisherman. And Using Austrailia and Canada as examples is like comparing grapes to footballs. Bad logic from those who haven't studied the issue.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:00 pm

Don't quite see how a mindset of losing rights has much todo with removing something from the environment that has been found to be harmful to the very thing we are promoting, our wildlife.Losing rights and using common sense are two different things and when they clash then I think common sense should prevail.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:25 pm

I live a couple hundred yards from what used to be a Trap Range was there when I was in school & my Elementry Principal use to shoot trap there along with some teachers I had in high School.
It was there for yrs on property left to the Township by a local farmer.I never shot trap but some of my friends & their parents did.When the neighbor hood started to build up from Cincnnati folks moving to the country of course the noise complaints started,petitions,you know do gooders that know betterment for us all.
That ended the trap range & the land set there for yrs idle just growing in weeds which I guess most figured was better for us.The township finally came up with some money from Taxes somewhere to put in 2 B Ball Diamonds & 1 Ft Ball field which none of were used very often,just once in a while by kids getting together & ocassionally little leauge or p wee football practice.
That lasted for a few more yrs then the EPA decided the lead in the ground was dangerous to everythingI guess, hired gaurds 24 hrs a day to keep people off for a month or so.Tore down the FT Ball field scooped up the top soil & hauled it off to who knows where,guess it's safer there then here (LOL) They then tore down 1 of the B Ball diamonds leaving one,put in a few swings,monkey cage to climb on & picnic shelter.Oh that was all after MORE TAX MONEY of course.The field beside that that had set in weeds for 20 yrs or more that I use to train dogs on they turned into a walking trail.Hardly any of it is used but is vandalised on a regular bases.
I just LOVE ALL THE DO GOODERS that watch out for me!!!

Another little tidbit I almost forgot I use to hunt & shoot quail on all that land plus surrounding farm land,haven't seen or heard a quail here for atleast 15 yrs now.
Thanks for taking care of it. :evil:

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:33 pm

Ezzy everything is bad for us anymore & they put more & more restrictions on evertything yr after yr supposedly for our own good but yet we & our kids have more & more health problems every yr from things we have been led to believe are good for us.
I hear the same things from my kids,it's like I tell them I don't know how we ever raised you because we did EVERYTHING WRONG!!
They won't feed a baby anything less it comes from a jar or can for babies then if they don't eat it all from the can or jar it has to go in the GARBAGE!!
I'm really surprised my mother raised 8 of us kids 5 of us being born at home & only the last 3 in a hospital,guess which ones were sick & had to stay in the hospital.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:36 pm

And what does that have to do with losing your rights. Sounds like more people wanted a park than wanted a trap range. Deal with it. Now, instead of two ball diamonds, you have one and a park that even more people wanted. Sounds like your rights are in fine order. If you don't like what is going on in your hometown, run for office, create a petition and do something about it. By the way, that would fall under Constitutional Admendment #1.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:56 pm

You think they asked the people what we wanted,are you kidding me.They had money they had to spend.The truth is that the Township wanted to give that land back at one time but the farmer had died no one to give it to.

We have a state park 3 miles from my house about 10,000 acres with about 2,000 acre Lake the State took from people that had lived on & farmed all their lives.There was people that committed suicide over loosing their home land because of it,did they ask what they wanted ? Now they have no money to keep it up the bathrooms are nasty & some are no longer even open.The concession stand has been empty & useless for yrs,most of it is now no hunting zones,my uncle killed more then 500 quail there before all this now there are NONE.I was born on that land & my father is buried on it but don't feel welcome there.

There are baseball fields galore not a Quarter mile from the township park so never needed one on township to start with & that's why they were never used,that land was also donated.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:57 pm

3b you said to DEAL WITH IT,well I'm 64 yrs old been here since I was 11 never been arrested,was an honor student,was offered a B Ball Scholarship as a sophmore but hurt my arm that same yr.
I lost a daughter when she was a wk old my oldest son has schizophenia,I could go on but just wanted to let you know I deal pretty good with things don't mean I like it or AGREE with it.
I don't like all the changes & don't think most of it has been for the good,I think that's why we get old & die so the young can start dealing with the changes,problem is most of them can't as youngsters because they been taught nothing is ever their fault.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:37 pm

And I am sorry for all of your losses and hardships. The thing is that no evidence was ever give to show that you have lost any of your rights by an agency switching over to non-toxic shot in order to save the environment. Nothing wrong with trying to save our natural resources in such a manner. I use non-toxic shot whenever possible and still bring home plenty of game. More most times than my buddies do with lead. You just have to be able to hit what your are aiming at.
All you have to do is show where they have violated your rights. So far, you haven't.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:13 pm

I don't need or want your sympathy you owe me nothing & I owe you or no one else anything,the oly 2 people I owed anything to are gone.My father passed a wk before my 20th birthday of complications from throat cancer my mother 3 yrs ago at 89 of colon cancer.I owe no one on this earth a dime & no one owes me that's the way I want it & like it & hope to leave this earth the same way.I was born with nothing never asked for anything or expected anything & will leave behing nothing.You & people like you are the reason we loose more & more of our rights every yr.You are probably for more strict gun laws & against NRA also.It's America that's your right give up what ever you feel necessary,every time we give they TAKE MORE.I WILL NOT!!! THIS is the LAND OF THE FREE & I WILL REMAIN FREE ASLONG AS I'M ALIVE!!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:27 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Ezzy everything is bad for us anymore & they put more & more restrictions on evertything yr after yr supposedly for our own good but yet we & our kids have more & more health problems every yr from things we have been led to believe are good for us.
I hear the same things from my kids,it's like I tell them I don't know how we ever raised you because we did EVERYTHING WRONG!!
They won't feed a baby anything less it comes from a jar or can for babies then if they don't eat it all from the can or jar it has to go in the GARBAGE!!
I'm really surprised my mother raised 8 of us kids 5 of us being born at home & only the last 3 in a hospital,guess which ones were sick & had to stay in the hospital.
Ted, I agree with you but I don't think taking something we found was poisonous off of the market really qualifies as losong a right.

Ezzy
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:54 pm

Ezzy if I believed for one minute that was the ONLY reason they want to take it off the market then I would agree but I believe there is more behind it.
What is safe,you & I both will be gone when they find something we have used or been around for yrs that will be added to the list as causing some kind of illness.
Autism is becoming more & more freqeunt & they are blaming that on vaccines youngsters get.Asbetos causes all kinds of problems supposedly but all the houses around this neighborhood had siding made from it,most of these houses now have Aluminum or Vinyl siding overtop of it .Cincinnati is now being called the BEDBUG CAPITAL of the world,they can't get rid of them because the poisons that worked are outlawed.You give up one thing & gain another!!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:12 pm

Let me see. I am the reason that your rights are being taken away.
I am a lifetime, card carrying member of the NRA. I have served my country in live fire and been wounded.
And it is people like me. The only way you can lose your rights is to do nothing about it.
From what I have seen in this thread, you complain, but not much else.
You are looking for a reason to blame someone for all that is wrong in your eyes, Look in a mirror.
I've laid it down more times than you can count.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:22 pm

3b I thank you for your service & would be proud to shake your hand & glad you are an NRA member thank you for both.
This is THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD & the only one I want to live in but every yr we loose more & more of our rights & if it don't change the day will come this country will join the rest.It won't happen in my lifetime & hopefully not in my GR Children but so much has changed in just my 64 yrs it's scary & we have no one to blame but ourselves for it.
Let me ask you this though do you think the NRA believes the only reason behind the lead ban is our own good?? :D

Oh by the way I look in the mirrow everday & SLEEP "bleep" GOOD!!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:21 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:3b I thank you for your service & would be proud to shake your hand & glad you are an NRA member thank you for both.
This is THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD & the only one I want to live in but every yr we loose more & more of our rights & if it don't change the day will come this country will join the rest.It won't happen in my lifetime & hopefully not in my GR Children but so much has changed in just my 64 yrs it's scary & we have no one to blame but ourselves for it.
Let me ask you this though do you think the NRA believes the only reason behind the lead ban is our own good?? :D

Oh by the way I look in the mirrow everday & SLEEP "bleep" GOOD!!
I do not think there is a hidden reason behind everthing that is done.
I do believe more and more of our freedoms are being taken away and I do believe 99% of them are stupid.
I do not understand how people who grew up in such terrible conditions of the past have survived and suddenly can tell us how bad it was.
I do believe if you want something changed you have to work at it and not just complain.
And I do believe 99% of people are good and have some common sense but we just don't hear much about them or from them.
And I do believe that it is freedom that makes a country and its people great.
And I do believe we are on the downward slope of greatness because of the loss of freedoms and the loss of personal responsibility that requires the government to provide for the people.
And I do believe it is a good thing to get rid of the lead in our environment where ever we can easily and responsibly.
And I do not believe we are all going to die if it isn't done immediately or completely.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:31 pm

:lol: Ezzy I agree with MOST of THAT :lol:
Here is something all of us have to agree on.We are all going to die of something. :wink:

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by nikegundog » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:28 am

I beleive when we are paying $10 for non-toxic trap shells instead of $5 we will have less people involved in shooting and that will be bad for or sport. Less people involved, less people fighting for our rights. Its anti-hunting groups that have been petitioning for the removal of lead shot and not for inviromental reasons but to drive up cost.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:43 am

I was at walmart last night looking at the price of shells. Lead shells were $8.98 a box, non-toxic shells were $9.50 a box. Prices go up. Plus, you aren't being required to use non-toxic unless hunting in wetlands.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by nikegundog » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:51 am

Bought a case of trap shells last night $5 a box, which is consistant to what I have been paying for the last decade. I can NEVER find non toxic shells for $5 a box.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:04 pm

Gentlemen,
The problem I see with this is no proof of damage has ever been submitted in court. Lead maybe toxic but not one time has there been evidence submitted in court that wild life has been effected by lead shot. Until this is proven no government agency has the right to implement rules saying lead has any effect on wild life, and these agencies do not have the right to implement laws, or rules with out Congressional approval. Again the Feds are over stepping their authority, big time.
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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddog1968 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:36 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Gentlemen,
Until this is proven no government agency has the right to implement rules saying lead has any effect on wild life, and these agencies do not have the right to implement laws, or rules with out Congressional approval. Again the Feds are over stepping their authority, big time.
RGD/Dave
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&o ... +waterfowl

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&o ... 5b1b9c7c0d

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_inform ... /index.jsp

Man you just throw stuff out there with little research don't ya?

I have used steel for a couple seasons now hunting everything from waterfowl to upland game including geese over fields....to me its a no brainer and in no way diminishes my rights....its the right thing to do and if a couple bucks affects who involves themselves in hunting and shooting sports, they weren't gonna be around long anyway.
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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:40 pm

DB68,
No sir, the premise was never proven that lead poisioning caused these problems, these are theories, about lesions and again instead of actual proof submited in court where actual Biological proff is required, the same old studies are allowed to stand, nothing has proven that these bird would not have eventually died from their wounds, not lead poisoning, and the interal problems with the birds can also be caused, by other contamination, which was never studied either. I say again where is the actual proof that these birds died from just eating lead.
Upland birds are shot with lead all the time and they still can not prove a winged bird will eventually perish just form lead poisioning. But yet they use these unproven
theories on Ducks all the time. Present the actual court case where they have proven biologically that lead poisioning is the cause of these Ducks deaths, not theories
actual legal biological proof. Not articles form some liberal magazine or government think tank.
RGD/Dave

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddog1968 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:05 pm

I think ya'll are in denial.

And if you think the Patuxent River Research Center is some think tank set up to
trick sportsmen and women then your might have a paranoid conspiracy theory issue.
The evidence is plain to me. Guess elevated lead levels in children is a false Government conspiracy too. :roll:

http://www.huntingwithnonlead.org/Bald% ... 0study.pdf

Maybe you don't believe zinc poisoning in dogs is real either....another conspiracy designed to rid the world of pennies. :lol:

http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/hardy/
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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:28 pm

BD68,
There is a difference between biologically proven fact and unproven junk science, we have people who actually believe in global warming, because of false studies
and junk science articles, I sure hope you don't believe in global warming also. People will do and say anything to steal your money.

RGD/Dave

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddog1968 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:32 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:BD68,
There is a difference between biologically proven fact and unproven junk science, we have people who actually believe in global warming, because of false studies
and junk science articles, I sure hope you don't believe in global warming also. People will do and say anything to steal your money.

RGD/Dave
Global warming is fact, its happened after and leading up to every ice age...... :lol:

What is junk about the eagle study at the Patuxent facility?
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:52 pm

Global warming comes and goes and I would hope you Dave, and everyone else knows that. But I think you are missing something on your report again. It is "Man made" global warming that is being disputed. And that hasn't and can't be proven.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddogger » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:06 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Global warming comes and goes and I would hope you Dave, and everyone else knows that. But I think you are missing something on your report again. It is "Man made" global warming that is being disputed. And that hasn'r and can't be proven.

Ezzy
Amen!!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:39 pm

birddogger wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Global warming comes and goes and I would hope you Dave, and everyone else knows that. But I think you are missing something on your report again. It is "Man made" global warming that is being disputed. And that hasn'r and can't be proven.

Ezzy
Amen!!

Charlie
Can't be proven with the Science and evidence so far.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Ezzy,
Your exacting word specification to play games with what actually is being stated is growing old, the Global warming junk science was premised on being man made.
You keep playing these kind of word game, thinking the uninformed will not see what you are doing. Junk Science is Junk Science and it has been used in all this green garbage to undermine many different American businesses, and some foolish young people in our society are led to believe this crap has some truth to it. Until
any of this Junk Science is factually proven in court non of it should be allowed to become law undermining American business practices.
RGD/Dave

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:50 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Ezzy,
Your exacting word specification to play games with what actually is being stated is growing old, the Global warming junk science was premised on being man made.
You keep playing these kind of word game, thinking the uninformed will not see what you are doing. Junk Science is Junk Science and it has been used in all this green garbage to undermine many different American businesses, and some foolish young people in our society are led to believe this crap has some truth to it. Until
any of this Junk Science is factually proven in court non of it should be allowed to become law undermining American business practices.
RGD/Dave
You keep playing these kind of word game, thinking the uninformed will not see what you are doing.
It seems to be working as you were the only one that caught it. Everyone else seemed to already know what we are talking about is man made warming, since we have no control over the times the globe is warming and when it is cooling. Records show when that is happening and it was warming for several years but seems it has pretty much stopped now. Just a good thing that our courts have nothing to do with whether it is or not or we could be in real trouble.

By the way, what am I doing? I must just be one of those foolish young people that has been mislead. I'll let Charlie and 3 Brits know we have been mislead.

Ezzy
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3Britts
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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:01 am

Just a note of truth. Ryman, science is not proven in court, it is proven in labs, study halls and field test (not to be confused with hunt tests and field trial). Global warming is a fact. The data, collected my scientists, shows that the world has gone through temp. increases and decreases for its history. Man enhanced global warming is what is being debated. The theory is that man's effect on global warming is causing the temps to change at a faster rate than has happened in the past, thus a quicker cool down or heat up than would naturally happen. Now, if you choose to ignor man's effect on the world in which we live and think everything is perfect, that is your choice. But, as a child of this world, I choose to leave the world a better place for my children and grandchildren to have after I have gone.
So go ahead and shoot your lead shot if that is what it takes to brinng the birds to ground. I will use non-lead shot and still hit more than you.
Words games indeed. Crack a book or professional journal and actually learn what you are talking about next time. Its really not that hard or my students would not do it. :twisted:

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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:31 pm

3Britts,
You actually believe man is causing Global warming, this is what I mean about having facts proven in court, the people who put this junk science out, need to be held accountable for their lies, in a court of law. I do believe in the future this will start to happen, I rest my case. If some of you people actually think Global warming is man made, I can see why you actually believe lead poisioning, actually occurs in numbers that would truly effect over all wild life. 3Britts just because you read something in a book or article does not make it true, we have way to may people like you, who attended liberal schools and have been fed false junk science. We need to return to actual biological proof, before any of these theories are accepted as fact, and laws altered because of them.
RGD/Dave

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddogger » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:38 pm

The theory is that man's effect on global warming is causing the temps to change at a faster rate than has happened in the past, thus a quicker cool down or heat up than would naturally happen. Now, if you choose to ignor man's effect on the world in which
Theory is the key word here, which as you know means there is no proof and, as has been mentioned, cannot be proved. I believe the whole thing is nothing but a liberal agenda.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm

birddogger wrote:
The theory is that man's effect on global warming is causing the temps to change at a faster rate than has happened in the past, thus a quicker cool down or heat up than would naturally happen. Now, if you choose to ignor man's effect on the world in which
Theory is the key word here, which as you know means there is no proof and, as has been mentioned, cannot be proved. I believe the whole thing is nothing but a liberal agenda.

Charlie

I think it is a theory that was based on false evidence and there is plenty of evidence that we couldn't change the temps of the world if we wanted to. Think I will take evidence against a theory any time.

Now there is a whole other story about lead in th environment. Though I doubt it is half as serious as it is being made out to be we do know in somne public areas there is so much lead shot that it is being ingested by the ducks and causing serious problems. I do hate the fact that other shot material is being priced so high but would guess that in the next few years you will see a lot of that disappear as more is being made and used.

Ezzy
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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddogger » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:02 pm

I think it is a theory that was based on false evidence and there is plenty of evidence that we couldn't change the temps of the world if we wanted to. Think I will take evidence against a theory any time.

Now there is a whole other story about lead in th environment. Though I doubt it is half as serious as it is being made out to be we do know in somne public areas there is so much lead shot that it is being ingested by the ducks and causing serious problems. I do hate the fact that other shot material is being priced so high but would guess that in the next few years you will see a lot of that disappear as more is being made and used.

Ezzy
Yeah, I agree there are things we can do to help protect the wild life and environment, I was only commenting on the man made global warming theory.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:56 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:...just because you read something in a book or article does not make it true....
Or on a message board.

Yes, lead can cause health issues....has done so for a long, long time.
Yes, lead entering a bird's body in any number of ways affects that bird's health...from non-game condors to wildfowl.
Yes, lead is a door toward greater issues that will affect shooters and non-shooters alike.
Yes, steel as a hunting pellet leaves much to be desired.
Yes, we need better/cheaper steel/non-tox loads but steel can work well as a hunting pellet without too much angst....course an ol' Elsie #5 may screech as it speeds down the spout.
Yes, both sides blow the whole lead shot debate out of proportion and widen it to gain converts to many associated/non-associated agendas.

I wonder if it has been proven, in court, that raptors kill ruffed grouse?
Perry?....Della?

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:43 pm

Heck, we are still waiting for the theory to be proved in court that you are actually alive and doing well. Right now it is just a theory. It's the "proven in court" line that shows a lack of any intelligent thought. Not everything that is not proven in court is untrue. Court cases are not designed to be proving factors in scientific cases. But than what would you care about proving things?
Here is a question for you, Ryman. Does God exsist?
To date, no one has been able to prove that in court.
Oh, perhaps you should attend any college before you start pointing fingers.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:11 pm

3Britts,
You are so right, MIT was a real Technical Institute when I graduated with my Masters, maybe I need some liberal arts college to educate me properly, sort of indoctrinate me into modern thinking, without all the nasty testing of theories, what a waste of time.
RGD/Dave

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:56 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:3Britts,
You are so right, MIT was a real Technical Institute when I graduated with my Masters, maybe I need some liberal arts college to educate me properly, sort of indoctrinate me into modern thinking, without all the nasty testing of theories, what a waste of time.
RGD/Dave
Yea, I bet you did. :lol: :lol: :lol:
So all of that science has been proven in court? I call BS!

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by RdHawg » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:33 pm

Well gents, I too have been down this road but have been swung over to the other side. Living in the Republik of Kalifornia someone decided I needed to use non-lead ammo for big game and varmint hunting in about half our state. I was MAD my 30.06 use to be $20 a box now $50. At 2.50 every time I pull the trigger I find I shoot MUCH better. Then my Father-in-law Showed me these video's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZJXderphCM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Wbj41j67A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdKlubTRkk8

After Watching this I decided my two babies (3yrs and 13mos.) are well worth a few bucks more a trip. Compared to the overall cost of my hunting this is squat! Since this board is primarily about birds I should also add that I voluntarily shoot steel at my pheasants. I have not had one complain yet and they hit the ground just as dead. Once they hit the table I have a ceramic magnet that really works well to make sure the girls don't eat shot - you can't do that with lead.

I believe that we should indeed have the option to make this choice on our own. But I think that it really shouldn't be something to fear. Different but not necessarily wrong.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by nikegundog » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:48 pm

Since this board is primarily about birds I should also add that I voluntarily shoot steel at my pheasants. I have not had one complain yet and they hit the ground just as dead.
I won't debate global warming, but I will debate steel being just as effective as lead. I don't think I'll need a degree from MIT for the argument.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by birddog1968 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:52 pm

It is just as effective these days, but you gotta shoot em where they eats not where they Sheets.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by nikegundog » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:10 pm

Since I run flushers, hitting them where they eats, is not always an option. The retained energy in lead shot at 50 yds. is the same as the energy of steel at 30 yds. I have nothing against someone who chooses to shoot steel over lead, however you are at a disadvantage. The data I used is the shot size I use on pheasants 4's and 6's.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by 3Britts » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:59 pm

I have no problem with those who choose to use lead, I just prefer not to use lead as I want to see my kids and grandchildren enjoy the great outdoors as I have used them. The mandate is that federal employees in the aspect of their job, use nonlead shot.

And just for the record, a Study by MIT
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/roulette-0519.html

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by nikegundog » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:08 pm

I read the article from the OP and did not see it mentioned that it only applied to federal employees in the aspect of their job.

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Re: No Lead for predation hunting-your next

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:20 am

nikegundog wrote:I read the article from the OP and did not see it mentioned that it only applied to federal employees in the aspect of their job.
It doesn't. We have had it here for several years on any public hunting areas. Some states just have it for waterfowl hunting in wetlands I believe.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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