Bird Shy Dog

[pschweitzer]

I need some help as I cannot find any information on this topic anywhere. I have a 10 month old Llewellin Setter that I got at 11 weeks and responded well to basic training and is one good natured dog. At 6 months I took him out to a local preserve here in Virginia to put him on some Chukar as I did not have any other access to birds at the time. No shooting that day just let him chase. Unfortunately he was completely scared of the birds and would not leave my side and eventually headed back to the safety of his kennel. The trainers at the preserve told me not to worry too much as setters sometimes mature later. At 10 months I saw some more boldness in him and since I was busy with renovations at home I decide that it would be a good idea to turn him over to a professional trainer. After a week I got a call that there was a problem. He was still scared of birds. The trainer told me that she would try a few more days but it looked like he would never hunt.

As a pup it took him a long time to socialize with other dogs. He was always timid but eventually warmed up. Is this a hopeless case or is there any way the bird shyness can be broken. Disposition wise he is a great dog and will make a great family pet, but that wasn't the original idea.

[tailcrackin]

where you at in va? Would be happy to try and show you somethings to help. Thanks Jonesy

[PrairieGoat]

You might want to get a copy of George Hickox pointer training video.....it describes how to introduce a dog to birds to ensure that they are not afraid of them. This is one of those things that is much easier to prevent than to cure. Since you are already past that point, you are going to have to work extra hard to cure it. Probably the best thing would be go back to the "wing 'n string" just enough to get the pup excited about birds (or parts thereof!) again. From there you need to introduce the pup to birds (and guns) very slowly and carefully. Start with a "locked wing" bird that can't flutter and put it and the pup in a confined area 10' wide by 30' long or so. Throw the bird to the end and let the pup do whatever he wants with it. Once he chases it down and starts mouthing it without any hesitation, then move on to a "clipped wing" bird that can flutter but not fly. Same exercise.....confined area....let the dog do with it what he wants. Once he is comfortable with this, then you can move on to introducing him to the gun......by then hopefully you will have the video!!!

Randy

[Sharon]

where you at in va? Would be happy to try and show you somethings to help. Thanks Jonesy

Now there's an offer not to miss. Make sure you follow up on this pschweitzer.

[bobman]

where you at in va? Would be happy to try and show you somethings to help. Thanks Jonesy

yep take him up on this I would send him to Jonesy. This is going to take someone with his experience to fix.

[ezzy333]

Bird shy is without a doubt the hardest thing to work with because there is no reward for the dog at the end of the day. When gun shy you always have the prey drive to use but this is tough.

Ezzy

[pschweitzer]

You gotta love these forums as I could not find info anywhere on this subject. Thanks to all who have replied.

Jonesy, I am in Broad Run, Va (Fauquier County) about 40 miles due west of DC. Presently Jamie is with Sharon Townley at Shady Grove Hunting Preserve. She is suppose to call me tonight with an update and see where we go from here. I am hoping she had a break through with him. I'll let you know though and I really appreciate the offer.

Some more info. I live on 5+ acres and Jamie's had a lot of freedom to move about in the grass and woods. He likes to chase squirrels and song birds and I do have to restrain him when the deer are out (I am covered with them out here), so in general he never has shown signs of being timid of smaller animals (he actually gets along better with smaller dogs). I have played the "wing on a string" game with him (one of his favorite games. he'll go outside and sit in from of the cane poll until I play with him) and even used a frozen chukar to help get him use to the scent and size of the bird. The preserve I took him to has a sporting clay area that is pretty active, but, although he was curious about the noise he did not flinch or cower at the gunshut. Needless to say when he froze up behind me at the site of a live bird I was shocked and stumped.

[tailcrackin]

If you do this right....or try an pay attention to doing things at the dogs speed......it will all be fine, I will pm you my info, so we can talk one on one, this is so we or I can question or mention, something that doesnt get thought about when typing. The biggest thing....is stay black and white for the dog, move ahead when its ready to move ahead, not when we are. It will come out in the wash, I promise. From what it sounds the dog has never gotten to mouth a bird, or try an retrieve. I mean a live flopping bird? Correct??

Bird shy is without a doubt the hardest thing to work with because there is no reward for the dog at the end of the day. When gun shy you always have the prey drive to use but this is tough.

Ezzy

The bird work should start before the gun work.....there is always a reward at the end...this situation, is the retrieve and attrition from mom/dad on the retrieve. The dogs can be fixed of gunshyness, and or birdshyness...with birds.....99% of the time....we have to evaluate what happened before coming here.....thats a whole nother topic, and that is where the 1% can show itself. Thanks Jonesy

[Don]

Some more info. I live on 5+ acres and Jamie's had a lot of freedom to move about in the grass and woods. He likes to chase squirrels and song birds and I do have to restrain him when the deer are out (I am covered with them out here), so in general he never has shown signs of being timid of smaller animals (he actually gets along better with smaller dogs). I have played the "wing on a string" game with him (one of his favorite games. he'll go outside and sit in from of the cane poll until I play with him) and even used a frozen chukar to help get him use to the scent and size of the bird. The preserve I took him to has a sporting clay area that is pretty active, but, although he was curious about the noise he did not flinch or cower at the gunshut. Needless to say when he froze up behind me at the site of a live bird I was shocked and stumped.

This statement makes me think your dog is useable. Somewhere along the line it had a bad encounter of some kind with a bird. Perhaps just a larger game bird taking off right under it's feet? You mention him never showing signs of being timid of smaller animals. That right after you mention you have to restrain him on deer. The connection here is between the dog and the game bird but the dog doesn't know a game bird form a condor. Think about it and I'd give Jonsey a call were I you.

[markj]

Can you get some live birds like quail? If so put em in a small cage, place em outside, let the dog "find" them slowly on its own, it should start to want them birds, then let the birds out and let he dog chase them a bit, if he catches one let him have it but no more than one. This may bring the prey drive out in him and make him want the birds as he should. Then move him to a preserve setting, and slowly bring him up to the gun level.

[pschweitzer]

After about 3 month, a dozen quail and great help from Jonsey over the phone or e-mail, I've got the start of a pretty good bird dog. Once Jamie figured out birds wouldn't hurt him, he found it was fun to chase and developed a natural point (I really never pushed the whoa command on him to date). I took him out to a local preserve, mostly because I ran out of quail. We planted 6 chukar on a pretty wet day. Jamie locked up on every one of them and also down wind of the bird which lets me know he used his nose. He stayed on point until I flushed the bird. He is still a gun shy since I could tell he was nervous at the other parties shooting close to us, but he did keep hunting. I used my blank pistol on the 4th bird after he chased about 30 yards on a flush. He stopped looked back at me and recalled. He wasn't freaked out, just was wondering what was going on. After that he was a bit slower but still hunted and locked on the last two birds. Jamie was pretty wet and shivering after about an hour and a half so I didn't push him and let him get back to the warmth of the car and his kennel.

Thanks to great help from Jonesy on this one because I was stumped at what to do next but did not want to give up on a pup so early.

[bobman]

Jonesy recently had a serious heart attack and bypass surgery there a thread about it on Upland Journal. Hes a real young guy.

[kninebirddog]

Jonesy is back home now just got home yesterday...obviously he will have to take it slow but he is doing very well they let him come home a day early from what i gather

congrats on the pup and working it out

[pschweitzer]

Thanks for the information on Jonesy. We will be praying for him here. I have never met him in person, but he called me almost every other week to check up on us and give me tips since I met him here on this post. He is one great guy from this family's view.

[dustertoo]

I bought a two year old bird shy, slightly gunshy (about like you describe yours to be), neglected female German Shorthair a year ago. This dog was from a friends kennel, and I wanted her because of her breeding and frankly, I felt sorry for her. She was owned by an older gentleman who lives on a postage stamp lot in the middle of town and had no place to take her to run. The dog was kept in a four foot wide kennel with a garage wall on one side and a privacy fence on the back and other side...her view of the world was a four foot chain link gate, and she was absolutely wild when let out. The gentleman couldn't handle her, and had called my friend to find a home for her or he was going to have to .......... My friend was very hesitant about me buying the problem dog...and he didn't even know about the bird/gunfire issues.

I was very cautious introducing her to game and gunfire, but she was sensitive to both. After a while she was finding and pointing quail and pigeons, but would almost back away as the birds flushed. I let her chase many without much positive effect at the flush...still ducking backwards, but gaining intensity on point. I had a friend fire a blank pistol way off to the side while she chased...her reaction was the same as you describe...stopping, looking back and returning to me. I spent a small fortune on birds trying to just let her gradually get over it, before finally breaking down and sending her to Jon Hann at Perfection Kennels in Northwest Missouri, for a couple of months.

I got her back in late February after a long stretch of ice storms in Northwest Missouri that had to hamper training conditions. Long story short, Bonnie earned her AKC Senior Hunter Title in April, and her AKC Master Hunter Title in October. I started running her in National Shoot to Retrieve field trials a few weeks after she finished her Master Hunter title, and she won her first NSTRA field trial her third weekend out. She is hands down the best bird dog I ever hunted behind, and I couldn't be happier. All this and plenty more surely to come, from a dog that someone else had given up on.

I know every dog won't recovery the same as mine did, but I give a ton of credit to a darn good trainer in Northwest Missouri.

Good luck with yours.
Dave

[snips]

Birds can change the attitude in lots of dogs, even make bold the shyest dog. Nothing like watching these dogs turn on in the field. Good luck.