Choosing a pointing breed...

[schmidty_dog]

Hi all, new here. I am originally from Iowa, now in the military in Alaska and hold orders to Kansas. I'm looking forward to being back in the midwest and hunting birds and feel that I can finally devote time to a bird dog. I'm going to buy a home, hopefully with lots of ground but I will do that before I get a dog.

My situation right now is that I have three cats, and getting rid of the cats is not an option. I will keep them and go without a dog if I couldn't find one that could tolerate cats. I understand they may not like eachother but I can't have a cat killer. I wouldn't leave them together when I wasn't in there presence so that may not be such a big factor.

The wife and I like the short haired breeds such as the Pointer, GSP, Weimaraner and such. I also like the GWP and English Setter. I want a dog that can hunt with me on foot, I'm not interested in a speed demon that will have me gasping for air. I've been told that English Pointers aren't good on foot since they are so fast, but that is why I'm asking your advice.

As far as the dogs life is concerned, I'm prepared to keep it for life, good hunter or not. I'm committed to animals. If I were to get orders somewhere that the dog wouldn't be able to have a great lifestyle my inlaws have a really nice acreage in south dakota that will accept my future dog with open arms until I could move back to the states or for the rest of its life. They have a lab and had two old brittanys that just passed on. They are avid hunters too so the dog would be right at home i'm sure.

This is a lot of info but I just want to let you all know what I need to know and hopefully give you a good base to start from.

Thanks, schmidty

[kninebirddog]

Hi there

Generally if you start them off as pups with the cats you stand a much better chance that they will be fine with each other and again I do STRESS GENERALLY and especially if your diligent in the training of the dog that the cat like anything else it shouldn't have is off limits on being used as a chew toy

Good Luck and Thank you for your service

[bobman]

If you get a pup there wont be any problems with a gsp mine leave our cats alone but they will kill other cats they find in the field sometimes, its something I discourage but its happened.

[ezzy333]

If you get a pup there wont be any problems with a gsp mine leave our cats alone but they will kill other cats they find in the field sometimes, its something I discourage but its happened.

I never found it necessary to do any training with a pup if you have mature cats. The cats always did what training was necessary. That is the reason I try to keep a cat around is to teach the pups what is accepted. And like Bobman says they still recognize strays or whatever and will chase but come back and spend an hour playing with our two. Fun to watch the cats attack if the dogs don't get it started first. The big thing is start them young so the cats do not feel the need to run.

Ezzy

[Killer Instinct]

Off Topic - Where are you stationed at in Alaska?

[bwjohn]

I agree, I do not think that you will have any problems with a dog and a cat. I have the same situation with a cat and a dog. The cat is only about 5 mos. older than the dog and they get along fine. The older cats will probably show the pup who is boss very quickly.

As far as choosing the breed, I would look at what is in with driving distance of you when you get to Kansas and go from there. Let the breeders now what you are looking for and they should be able to let you know how there dogs generally are. There are always exceptions to the norm.


Brandon

[schmidty_dog]

Off Topic - Where are you stationed at in Alaska?

Eielson.

[schmidty_dog]

Ok so since it seems my cats should be ok, which of these breeds makes a better foot hunter. English Pointer, GSP, Weimaraner? I think I'm going to stick to those three breeds. There seems to be lots of English Pointer breeders near Wichita or at least within an hour or two. Haven't seen as many GSP or Weims though. I was set on English Pointer but had been told they might run too hard and fast for me and be WAY too far ahead of me in the field.

[birdsandbirds]

Get yourself a Elhew pointer..a weim is too big of a gamble.

[greatlawn]

check out the exceptional shorthair gundog listed in pups for sale. I have a pup from this litter they are amazing. Shorthairs are the best.

[bwjohn]

I am not biased or anything, but you could add Vizsla's to your list. I think they would fit what you want. Do not know about breeders in your area though.

Brandon

[CherrystoneWeims]

Get yourself a Elhew pointer..a weim is too big of a gamble.

Not necessarily. Look for a pup from field trial PARENTS or one where one or both parents are Master Hunters. There are plenty of good Weims out there you just have to know where to look.

As far as cats go even though a pup has been raised with a cat sometimes prey drive will kick in. I have a Weim at my house that has been raised with cats and at about a year old the drive REALLY kicked in and I have to watch her carefully. She will sometimes try to grab my cat even though it is in the house and the pup has been clawed plenty of times.

[prairiefirepointers]

Get yourself a Elhew pointer..a weim is too big of a gamble.

I agree.. Like this 4 week old handsome devil!

[big steve46]

Get yourself a Elhew pointer..a weim is too big of a gamble.

I agree.. Like this 4 week old handsome devil!

Great looking pup!

[Sharon]

What a big , healthy pup. He'll be a big boy.

[Sharon]

What a big, healthy pup. He'll be a big boy.

[prairiefirepointers]

Thanks.. Did'nt mean to hijack the thread. I just could'nt resist posting one of the pics I had just taken earlier of the puppies, since they mentioned "elhew pointers"

[56-26]

I have a Vizsla that we got when he was a puppy. Never had a problem with him and the cat. They also make a good house dog.

[postoakshorthairs]

Everyone is going to have thier own opinion on what breed is better...you can usually look at thier avatar photo and take a wild stab ...but in my opinion if you have it narrowed down to a few breeds take the time to visit a breeder or two from the breeds you like in your area when you get settled. There are differences in range, ground speed, temperment etc. within all the breeds which is based more on the breeding then the breed...ie; don't buy a pup from a big running field trial line of dogs if you want a close working dog. If your looking for a shorter range foot hunting dog find a breeder who is using working dogs for breeding...it could be guide dogs, hunting dogs, walking field trial dogs or a combination of all three. Just my two cents worth

[RayGubernat]

schmidty -

The big four in pointing dogs are pointer, German Shorthaired Pointer, English Setter and Brittany. There are hundreds of breeders of each of these breeds and many, if not most of them speicalize in field quality dogs.

Strictly from the standpoint of choice and availability, these would be the breeds I would concentrate on. There are so many diferent folks producing dogs for different hunter preferences that you shold be able to find one that is producing the kind of dog you will be happy with.

In my opinion, in each of these four breeds, you can go from dogs that hunt dutifully to the gun...all the way to dogs that fart fireballs and leave scorch marks on the ground they have run over. There is, again in my opinon, far more variation within each of the breeds than between them. The one breed(of the four) that I will say seems at least currently, to have a larger percentage of wht most would consider an good, moderate ranging bird dog is the Brittany.

Thre are indeed some outstnding representative specimens from many of the other breeds mentioned, but the number of breeders is simply not there, so the choices are thus limited.

If however, you have an outstanding kennel of one of the other breeds close by and they breed the kind of dog you are happy with...that works also. Keep in mind that different breeds have differing temperaments. Different breeds also each do the hunting and pointing thing a little differently from each other. One breed, one way is not necessarily better or worse, more or less effective a hunter than another...just different.

Since you mentioned two states, Kansas and N. Dakota I will have the following comment.... YOU may find that you will need a dog with a little bit of leg. A taller dog might not be a bad idea either since there is probably a good amount of fairly tall grasses that you will be hunting in. That is pretty expansive country and you will see the advantage of adog that covers a good bit of ground(so you don't have to).

There are, I think, two keys to hunting over a bigger running dog. Two skills that the dog must have... The first is the ability to find birds and hold them 'till the hunter gets there. That is what I call an honest dog and if the dog is going to run significantly out of gun range it simply HAS to be an honest dog. The second key is that a wider running dog has got to want to be with you, want to hunt for you and want to check back in.

The good ones, in any breed...will do both of the above.

RayG

[chukarguy]

Everyone is going to have thier own opinion on what breed is better...you can usually look at thier avatar photo and take a wild stab ...but in my opinion if you have it narrowed down to a few breeds take the time to visit a breeder or two from the breeds you like in your area when you get settled. There are differences in range, ground speed, temperment etc. within all the breeds which is based more on the breeding then the breed...ie; don't buy a pup from a big running field trial line of dogs if you want a close working dog. If your looking for a shorter range foot hunting dog find a breeder who is using working dogs for breeding...it could be guide dogs, hunting dogs, walking field trial dogs or a combination of all three. Just my two cents worth

+1
And for what it is worth. I have an ep and a gsp, both live in the house with me, family pets, I consider them both to be very fine hunting dog's. I couldn't tell you right now what breed I will choose when the day comes that I loose one of mine! I will have to check with the different breeders around (for either breed) and see if they have the type of traits that I am looking for.

[Sharon]

""all the way to dogs that fart fireballs and leave scorch marks on the ground they have run over. " quote Ray G.

ROFLMBO

..............

Schmidty: It 's impossible to make generalizations about any breed. I've had beagles, GSPs, setters and JRTs in the house. They were all great house dogs. Another one of the same breed might not be.Based on my experience , if I had to choose the easiest dog to train and keep in the house I'd choose the setter - smaller, calmer, co-operative but some grooming needed ( feet etc.) Then again maybe I've just been lucky.

[1vizsla]

Where in Kansas will you be going? We are at Ft Leavenworth but know some breeders of all types in the area. Of course, we love our Vizsla.

Carla

[schmidty_dog]

Where in Kansas will you be going? We are at Ft Leavenworth but know some breeders of all types in the area. Of course, we love our Vizsla.

Carla

Mcconnell AFB, Wichita.

[Dennmor]

Ok so since it seems my cats should be ok, which of these breeds makes a better foot hunter. English Pointer, GSP, Weimaraner? I think I'm going to stick to those three breeds. There seems to be lots of English Pointer breeders near Wichita or at least within an hour or two. Haven't seen as many GSP or Weims though. I was set on English Pointer but had been told they might run too hard and fast for me and be WAY too far ahead of me in the field.

Before you comepletly make up your mind, I'd have a look at Large Munsterlanders and German Longhair pointers. I have a LM and I'll tell you there isn't a sweeter dog in the house than my Moses.
The GLP's are virtually the same dog, just a different color. LM's are black and white, GLP's are brown or brown and white.
Both breeds are natural pointer/hunters, naturally good foot hunters,and they're easy to train. And great house/family dogs as well!
The GLP's are an old breed with a great tradition.

Have a look at this GLP website, http://www.coraschatten.com/About_Us.htm . Great people comitted to great dogs.
dennmor

[Dennmor]

double post,sorry

[1vizsla]

Wichita is nice. When will you get here? When you decide on a breed, let me know and we will see what we can come up with. I think our next dog will be an american water spaniel. Still doing the research though.

carla

[h20fwlkillr]

There are plenty of good breeders for just about any of the hunting breeds in the area. Don't rule out a pup that isn't from FT lines. There are plenty of good pups from guides and breeders that hunt their dogs, but don't test or trial. Just because one doesn't play the doggie games, doesn't mean they don't produce quality pups. I am biased to weims, but it is hard to find a weim that truely hunts. If you don't have your heart set on a particular breed, then I would go with a GSP, Viszla, EP, english or gordon setter.

[chicago0517]

Get a pointer or shorthair. The odds will be more in your favor based on your shedding requirements.

I'd look for one with multipled titled dogs behind it. Sounds like in your case, I'd look for MHs or Navhda dogs with UTI, UTII or VC titles. FC/AFC dogs may work too, but go see some dogs and find out how far you want them to range and run. Great dogs, no question, but not for everyone. Also, be honest about how much training you want to do.

I'd make a list of what you want before seeing breeders. You can quickly become excited about a 400 yard dog when you see it running and find out that you'd rather have a 100 yarder, or visa versa.

You're moving to central Kansas for goodness sake. You could probably open the newspaper and find a good dog for $200.

[schmidty_dog]

Thanks for all the positive and helpful comments guys, lots of good info. Keep them coming too if you have something else for me. Yeah I kinda over do it with the research and stuff but I just want to be sure before I pick a friend for life that we'll have the same idea of fun. I don't want to buy a dog and have it run forever and be a mile from me and have to go catch it, (not often at least, I know sometimes dogs just run).

Thanks again, schmidty

[Dennmor]

Thanks for all the positive and helpful comments guys, lots of good info. Keep them coming too if you have something else for me. Yeah I kinda over do it with the research and stuff but I just want to be sure before I pick a friend for life that we'll have the same idea of fun. I don't want to buy a dog and have it run forever and be a mile from me and have to go catch it, (not often at least, I know sometimes dogs just run).

Thanks again, schmidty

The bottom line here isn't so much the breed of dog you buy. There are dogs in most breeds that run big or hunt close. To say that all GSP's are big runners and all English Setters are close in hunters is naive. You can get the the right breed and the wrong dog and be very disappointed.
If you logically lay out your criteria and go from there you should be ok.
Once you narrow it down to a few breeds then you have to, just as carefully, narrow it down to the right breeder.
Keep this in mind
As humans, most of our difficulty in making a decision doesn’t come from not knowing the right choice, it comes from trying to justify the wrong one!

Oh, BTW don't forget to follow your heart!
dennmor

[BlueWeim]

I may be a little biased as well, but if you are looking for a dog that hunts close to medium range.....that is exactly what the majority of Weims are, close to medium hunters. Just make sure you get a pup that comes from a breeder that emphasizes the hunting in their breeding. With all that bieng said the other breeds you mentioned are great breeds as well. I also know that there are big running Weims too, but the majority are not.

[jayhawkj]

Schmidty, here's a couple of web sites for you in Kansas.

www.outbackgundogs.com
www.progundog.com

My brother bought a young gsp from Kirby at outback recently and he's an outstanding young dog. Myself I'm a brittany guy and they do very well in the house. Good luck!