dog losing weight on high performance food

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:59 pm

Tori,

Back on Nov. 7 you responded to my question about which Eagle food you used but you didn't say what brand of Performance food caused the weight loss. So what did you feed during the hunting season?

I would try the new formula of Canidae, just don't feed to much and watch the stool volume.

Also the Diamond Professional formua or Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete formula would be some food I would try too.

I certaily know that "Satin Balls" will put some weight on your dog if you want to go to the trouble of making them.

There are many sites with a recipe. Some differ a little. Here is the one I know works for many working dogs to keep weight on. I would also use the digestive aide with each meal too.

SATIN BALLS
http://itsthedogslife.com/2008/05/satin ... ain-magic/

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:07 pm

Wlfdg wrote: There is no such thing as good quality corn! Those are three words that should never go together
Ever heard of lectins? How about leptins?
http://www.dogtorj.net/id110.html
Corn- The Toxic Grain (The primer)

Years back I researched his credentials (dogtorj) and came up with nothing. Couldn't find his school, couldn't find where he practiced.
He speaks of the evils of corn and then recommends feeding carnivores fruits and vegetables. I came to the conclusion he must a crack pot.

Corn crossed the line for some when it became a GM food product. It lost that 'natural' appeal. Prior to that, it was a long time staple ingredient in many dog foods and never a problem. Dogs are not allergic to corn yet it became a scapegoat ingredient to be blamed when they would scratch their head and say...it must be the corn, try this instead...with no justification. Dogs being allergic to corn is like being allergic to outside air and nothing more than a myth that it poses a danger to dogs. It you're concerned about staying 'natural' than you may want to avoid corn, outside of that I wouldn't worry about it.

Poop eating: dogs as you know have excellent sense of smell. They can actually smell the proteins in the poop of what that dog has been eating. My dogs stopped eating poop when I move off of commercial omnivore nutrition. If your dog ration is rich in animal source proteins and fat, poop eating should become a thing of the past. Problem is commercial omnivore nutrition, despite it's claims is very weak in animal source proteins and in most all cases, the protein core is dominated by gluten source proteins. The industry as a whole will openly admit it is feeding omnivores and attempts to justify grain, fruits, vegetable and plant matter as an essential, when clearly carnivore dog should be eating higher concentrations of meat and fats.

Weight loss: dogs remain thin, lean and trim on the higher quality diets. So long as the hips aren't visibly showing, don't worry about being too lean. It can actually add a few years onto their life. Dogs become obese from improperly structured diets. They do not get fat from over ingesting calories. Owners are often blamed for too many treats not enough exercise when it is the ration at fault, not the owner.

Wlfdg · Post by **Wlfdg** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:55 am

He may or may not be a crackpot but what he writes about corn is truth. Corn is not healthy. No if, ands or buts about it.

Watch the documentary King Corn http://www.kingcorn.net/
Lectins in corn are toxic.

Staple or not it is not good dog food. It's not good cattle food. It's not good pig food. It's not good human food. The saturated fat in beef or pork from corn fed stock is unhealthy for consumption. The saturated fat in free range, pastured and grass fed beef and pork is healthy. It's that simple.

As far as fruits and veggies, wolves eat berries off the bush like bears do and they get a minimal amount of vegetable matter from eating stomach and intestinal tissue. When we go huckleberry picking my wolfdog eats nearly as many off the bush as we pick.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:20 am

Wlfdg wrote:He may or may not be a crackpot but what he writes about corn is truth. Corn is not healthy. No if, ands or buts about it.

Watch the documentary King Corn http://www.kingcorn.net/
Lectins in corn are toxic.

Staple or not it is not good dog food. It's not good cattle food. It's not good pig food. It's not good human food. The saturated fat in beef or pork from corn fed stock is unhealthy for consumption. The saturated fat in free range, pastured and grass fed beef and pork is healthy. It's that simple.

As far as fruits and veggies, wolves eat berries off the bush like bears do and they get a minimal amount of vegetable matter from eating stomach and intestinal tissue. When we go huckleberry picking my wolfdog eats nearly as many off the bush as we pick.

Once again it seems to be necessary to try and discredit everything that has been learned over the years. And I have no idea why the people who want to feed their dogs differently feel its important to tell us why they are superior. This is the prime example when it starts "He may or may not be a crackpot but what he writes about corn is truth. Corn is not healthy. No if, ands or buts about it." When called on the carpet the answer is it doesn't matter that ny source is a crackpot, he is right. Granted he is right in your mind but the rest of us are out here in the real world.

Wlfdg, feed what you want and like, and I will feed a quality dogfood and challenge you to show me month by month where your dog is healthier than mine or the millions upon millions of other dogs in the world. Bottom line, If your way is better there has to be some physical evidence that we all can see. And then we will decide how we want to feed. As of now, I think I will stick to the universities research and the age old experience and common sense approach instead of going with a seemedly internet individual with some radical opinions that are based on a "crackpot".

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:43 am

Ezzy, is this the university research you are talking about?

"Dogs fed a higher percentage of total protein derived from corn gluten meal were less able to maintain muscle than those fed similar diets containing chicken protein. The loss in the ability to maintain muscle coincided with a decrease in a high-molecular-weight calpastatin band detected on western blots. The canines that were fed a 28% crude protein diet consisting of chicken as the sole protein source showed an increase in a high-molecular-weight form of skeletal muscle calpastatin in the biceps femoris, implying that these dogs may have had greater potential to regulate calpain-mediated degradation of muscle protein. Because calpastatin inhibits calpain, which partially degrades some skeletal muscle proteins, it is suggested that a change in calpastatin in muscle may function to maintain skeletal muscle mass and/or increase skeletal muscle protein accretion by minimizing proteolysis"

Iowa State

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:41 am

mcbosco wrote:Ezzy, is this the university research you are talking about?

"Dogs fed a higher percentage of total protein derived from corn gluten meal were less able to maintain muscle than those fed similar diets containing chicken protein. The loss in the ability to maintain muscle coincided with a decrease in a high-molecular-weight calpastatin band detected on western blots. The canines that were fed a 28% crude protein diet consisting of chicken as the sole protein source showed an increase in a high-molecular-weight form of skeletal muscle calpastatin in the biceps femoris, implying that these dogs may have had greater potential to regulate calpain-mediated degradation of muscle protein. Because calpastatin inhibits calpain, which partially degrades some skeletal muscle proteins, it is suggested that a change in calpastatin in muscle may function to maintain skeletal muscle mass and/or increase skeletal muscle protein accretion by minimizing proteolysis"

Iowa State

Yep, thats a miniscule part of what I am talking about, actual study and research results. After that research was completed then they had to try different levels to see just where the possible handicaps outweighed the benefits so we know how much we cn use in a feed and reap the benefits of using it. The one you quoted is part of the basis for not using Corn Gluten Meal as a sole source of protein but to limit it and use it in combination with other sources so you can produce a feed that covers all of the bases. Single source feeds are never as good as a combination of several varied sources of practical every nutrition requirement of our dogs or other animals as well.

Ezzy

Wlfdg · Post by **Wlfdg** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:15 am

It's not a matter of my way is the right way. That's not my point. My way is what works best for my dogs.
I wouldn't ask anyone to make the financial sacrifices my GF and I make to feed our dogs the way we do. My dogs health is way more important than any fancy shotguns or shiny truck.

My point is that corn is an unhealthy food source even for herbivores. It can in no way be good to feed to carnivores. Dogs are not omnivores.
It's as simple as 2+2=4.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:49 am

Wlfdg wrote: It can in no way be good to feed to carnivores. Dogs are not omnivores.
It's as simple as 2+2=4.

Another time you are wrong. Back in time you were probably right though.

Ezzy

postoakshorthairs · Post by **postoakshorthairs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:03 am

When we go huckleberry picking my wolfdog eats nearly as many off the bush as we pick.

Dogs are not omnivores.
It's as simple as 2+2=4.

wouldn't that make your dog an omnivore???

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:46 am

ezzy333 wrote:
mcbosco wrote:Ezzy, is this the university research you are talking about?

"Dogs fed a higher percentage of total protein derived from corn gluten meal were less able to maintain muscle than those fed similar diets containing chicken protein. The loss in the ability to maintain muscle coincided with a decrease in a high-molecular-weight calpastatin band detected on western blots. The canines that were fed a 28% crude protein diet consisting of chicken as the sole protein source showed an increase in a high-molecular-weight form of skeletal muscle calpastatin in the biceps femoris, implying that these dogs may have had greater potential to regulate calpain-mediated degradation of muscle protein. Because calpastatin inhibits calpain, which partially degrades some skeletal muscle proteins, it is suggested that a change in calpastatin in muscle may function to maintain skeletal muscle mass and/or increase skeletal muscle protein accretion by minimizing proteolysis"

Iowa State

Yep, thats a miniscule part of what I am talking about, actual study and research results. After that research was completed then they had to try different levels to see just where the possible handicaps outweighed the benefits so we know how much we cn use in a feed and reap the benefits of using it. The one you quoted is part of the basis for not using Corn Gluten Meal as a sole source of protein but to limit it and use it in combination with other sources so you can produce a feed that covers all of the bases. Single source feeds are never as good as a combination of several varied sources of practical every nutrition requirement of our dogs or other animals as well.

Ezzy

There is no benefit other than saving money, that is the reason why a blend is used by some manfactures, to limit the downside. If animal protein cost the same as CGM, do you still believe anyone would use CGM?

Its smart business, that's about all it is.

sal

Wlfdg · Post by **Wlfdg** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:17 pm

postoakshorthairs wrote:
When we go huckleberry picking my wolfdog eats nearly as many off the bush as we pick.

Dogs are not omnivores.
It's as simple as 2+2=4.
wouldn't that make your dog an omnivore???

No, the actual amount he/wild canines eat isn't significant enough to be considered omnivores. He stops eating berries before we do. We don't pick them to take home we just stop and eat some when we see a patch.
Canines are still carnivores.

Wlfdg · Post by **Wlfdg** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:23 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Wlfdg wrote: It can in no way be good to feed to carnivores. Dogs are not omnivores.
It's as simple as 2+2=4.
Another time you are wrong. Back in time you were probably right though.

Ezzy

Back in time? Dogs have not evolved into omnivores. Evolution takes millions of years. We haven't evolved since the Paleolithic age. Dogs have only been with us since the Pleistocene age.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

Canis Lupus Familiaris-Domestic dog
Pleistocene – Recent

The dog (recently[when?] reclassified from Canis familiaris to Canis lupus familiaris, see below for details [2] pronounced /ˈkeɪ.nɪs ˈluːpəs fʌˈmɪliɛərɪs/) is a domesticated form of the Gray Wolf, a member of the Canidae family of the order Carnivora. The term is used for both feral and pet varieties.........Over the 15,000 year span that the dog had been domesticated,..........

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:48 pm

Are you freaking serious?....we went from someone wanting a little help with there dog not gaining weight to, are dogs omnivores or carnivores and no evolution since the paleolithic age? Seriously these food discussions on this forum have become a little old....
We all have our own opinions and were all right, just ask us we'll tell you......pathetic seriously pathetic... :roll:

Tori keep doing what your doing as of now and get back later and tell us how things are going...

There again this is of course JUST MY OPINION, ( THIS SEEMS TO BE THE DEFAULT SIGNATURE ANYMORE. )

Chip

postoakshorthairs · Post by **postoakshorthairs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:30 pm

Are you freaking serious?....we went from someone wanting a little help with there dog not gaining weight to, are dogs omnivores or carnivores and no evolution since the paleolithic age? Seriously these food discussions on this forum have become a little old....
We all have our own opinions and were all right, just ask us we'll tell you......pathetic seriously pathetic...

Tori keep doing what your doing as of now and get back later and tell us how things are going...

There again this is of course JUST MY OPINION, ( THIS SEEMS TO BE THE DEFAULT SIGNATURE ANYMORE. )

Chip

Chip is right. I'm sorry i got suckered into participating. Unfortunatly every thread related to food ends up a debate between two or three posters about grain versus no grain. Neither side is ever going to give any ground so agree to disagree.

brdhntr · Post by **brdhntr** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:47 pm

Why do so many here get offended when a discussion on diet turns scientific. Thin skins?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:31 am

brdhntr wrote:Why do so many here get offended when a discussion on diet turns scientific. Thin skins?

naaaa- for the benifit of the person who is actually asking, or reading, and might get fooled by nonscense- when all they want is some help on putting weight on a hard working skinny dog- so they answere back instead of ignoring the dribble

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:57 am

I don't think its dribble and while it may appear off-topic it may not be in fact. I think if my dog were underweight I would first question the core diet rather than look for add-ons. It is totally reasonable to question the basic protocol.

I could easily call a plant-based gluten diet "dribble" as well.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:25 am

brdhntr wrote:Why do so many here get offended when a discussion on diet turns scientific. Thin skins?

Because the people who are offering it are the ones that do not feed kibble and have no scientific knowledge of dog nutrition but instead glean bits and pieces of info that look like it supports their position rather than look at the broad base of research that is available and understanding what it really says.

Shadow wrote:naaaa- for the benifit of the person who is actually asking, or reading, and might get fooled by nonscense- when all they want is some help on putting weight on a hard working skinny dog- so they answere back instead of ignoring the dribble

I'm sure this is right. These discussions are not intended to answer the original question but rather to promote individual opinions. Many times the original poster gets discouraged and just ignores the whole post.

Mcbosco wrote:I don't think its dribble and while it may appear off-topic it may not be in fact. I think if my dog were underweight I would first question the core diet rather than look for add-ons. It is totally reasonable to question the basic protocol.

I could easily call a plant-based gluten diet "dribble" as well.

This is an example of the problem. This is an answer to another poster and not to the question that was asked. And each sentence starts with the word "I think" or "I don't think". And then ends with an off subject jab at another poster.

I have to admit I have been quilty of the same offence when I answer some of the posts, trying to keep readers informed of what and how dogfood is formulated and manufactured. I admit it bothers me when you see so many erronous statements about a subject that I have spent my life working and making a living with. Just in this thread you see common lay people who I am sure know a lot more than I do about the job they do, telling us what the dog food manufactures are thinking and doing. And in most cases it couldn't be further from the truth.

It takes two to argue and in too many cases one of those has been me trying to explain what most of us are doing with our dogs and how successful it has been. The evidence is showing that most people can and are able to sort the "dribble" from the common knowledge of feeding a dog in a manner that allows it to perform at an extremely high level and live a long and healthy life. So with that I will make the effort to stay on subject and not waste time defending our methods that really do not need defending as the evidence is surrounding us every at every dog show, field trial, and upland field.

Ezzy

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:41 pm

Actually it is now understood that evolution can take place in small quick jumps...not the slow changes over millions of years previously thought, while some changes may take place that way more often evolution is characterized by rapid changes in response to environment.

Lets put all that aside tho......

I have some pointers and one is a picky eater....it took some trial and error to find a food he thrived on and kept his weight up. It is frustrating, buying different foods and not achieving your goal.....keep after it , you'll find one. That said mine will still loose a bit of weight over our long preserve season. He works mostly 4 hours a day 4-5 days a week over a 5-6 month season, some days he may work 6 or more hours a day.....by the end of the season he will appear somewhat thinner but not drastically so. It took me some trail and error to find a food he liked and kept him in condition and able to put forth a good effort consistently.

If you would like to know what food helped him shoot me a pm, dont want to start a unproductive debate here on this food or that.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:28 pm

Post the brand here where we all can learn. If it startssomething we will just lock the thread.

Ezzy

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:34 pm

Exceed Chicken.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:37 pm

Practically everyone I have ever heard that has tried the Exceed like it. I would have to drive 60 miles to get it so I have not. But it sure sounds like one of the better ones.

Ezzy

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:40 pm

we have over 20 dogs on it here, Labs, Longtails, GSP's ,Setters....JH, SH, MH, Nstra champion....plain ole working dogs, they all like it and look good.

My sensitive dog loves it, was lost without it. Just my experience.

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:02 am

So a dog is losing weight on high performance food, but how do you know if the dog just simply isn't shedding unnecessary pounds?

I don't think it is uncommon at all for a higher performance food to take off the unnecessary pounds. If you are unsatisfied with the appearance after the switch, go back to the other product and the unnecessary pounds should come back on.

Hate to make correlations between dog/human, but consider the Atkins Diet for a moment. What happens to people who try this diet, eliminating carbs, and eating meats and fats? It has been proven, these people lose weight. However, we cannot sustain that type of diet because after a few months they say it can work against us and start eating away at our organs. Dogs don't have that problem we humans encounter on that type of high protein fat diet no carb diet....because carnivore dog can handle that type of diet. There is not one single solitary drop of scientific evidence (that I know of) that there is a requirement for carbs in a dog diet.

So, I would tend to think, a dog losing weight on a higher performance food is only natural and healthier for the dog and if you would prefer to see a dog with more unnecessary weight, switch back to lesser performing diet. One last thing, don't be fooled by grain free gimmick diets IMO. The fiber from plants holds no advantage over the fiber from grains, you've gained zero ground in that battle.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:40 pm

claybuster_aa wrote:So a dog is losing weight on high performance food, but how do you know if the dog just simply isn't shedding unnecessary pounds?

I don't think it is uncommon at all for a higher performance food to take off the unnecessary pounds. If you are unsatisfied with the appearance after the switch, go back to the other product and the unnecessary pounds should come back on.

Hate to make correlations between dog/human, but consider the Atkins Diet for a moment. What happens to people who try this diet, eliminating carbs, and eating meats and fats? It has been proven, these people lose weight. However, we cannot sustain that type of diet because after a few months they say it can work against us and start eating away at our organs. Dogs don't have that problem we humans encounter on that type of high protein fat diet no carb diet....because carnivore dog can handle that type of diet. There is not one single solitary drop of scientific evidence (that I know of) that there is a requirement for carbs in a dog diet.

So, I would tend to think, a dog losing weight on a higher performance food is only natural and healthier for the dog and if you would prefer to see a dog with more unnecessary weight, switch back to lesser performing diet. One last thing, don't be fooled by grain free gimmick diets IMO. The fiber from plants holds no advantage over the fiber from grains, you've gained zero ground in that battle.

Poor analogy regarding the Atkins Diet. You obviously haven't read the book or understand it, but have relied on inaccuracys you have been told or read. It is not a "no carbo" diet, although carbos are greatly restricted at first, and restricted less later.

"Scientific evidence" may be an oxymoron.

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:05 pm

big steve46 wrote:
Poor analogy regarding the Atkins Diet. You obviously haven't read the book or understand it, but have relied on inaccuracys you have been told or read. It is not a "no carbo" diet, although carbos are greatly restricted at first, and restricted less later.

"Scientific evidence" may be an oxymoron.

Is it not true Atkins diet has one eating meats and high fat foods at the start of the diet (with restricted carb intake)? Is in not true that dogs fare better with higher concentrations of meats and fats? Is it not true that people do lose weight when they try Atkins diet? Is it not true we find dogs shedding those unnecessary pounds when switching higher quality diets? I may not be an expert in Atkins diet but I know enough and have witnessed those eating that type of diet take off some unnecessary pounds. That analogy works for this scenario. We cannot sustain that type of diet because it will begin to work against us (if you don't start increasing carbs). It will never work against dogs for obvious reasons being their bodies are designed to eat that type of diet. JMHO.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:16 pm

claybuster_aa wrote:
big steve46 wrote:
Poor analogy regarding the Atkins Diet. You obviously haven't read the book or understand it, but have relied on inaccuracys you have been told or read. It is not a "no carbo" diet, although carbos are greatly restricted at first, and restricted less later.

"Scientific evidence" may be an oxymoron.
Is it not true Atkins diet has one eating meats and high fat foods at the start of the diet (with restricted carb intake)? Is in not true that dogs fare better with higher concentrations of meats and fats? Is it not true that people do lose weight when they try Atkins diet? Is it not true we find dogs shedding those unnecessary pounds when switching higher quality diets? I may not be an expert in Atkins diet but I know enough and have witnessed those eating that type of diet take off some unnecessary pounds. That analogy works for this scenario. We cannot sustain that type of diet because it will begin to work against us (if you don't start increasing carbs). It will never work against dogs for obvious reasons being their bodies are designed to eat that type of diet. JMHO.

Atkins with verification by self-testing of ketones is a progressive diet where you add sufficient carbos for good health. Still bad analogy. I'm always in favor of high quality feed for humans and dogs. Criteria and standards can vary, and it doesn't mean one person is more correct than another. How the dog looks, performs, and how they process feed are the key elements to good feed.

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:15 pm

Holy F&%k looks like things never change, still the same old same old.

Claybuster one thing with Atkins is ketosis, which Atkins is reliant upon, takes place completely different in canines, be they wild or domestic it dont matter. While a human can go into ketosis in less than 24 hours, and it is rapid, a canine will take two or three times as long to acheive ketosis and it is a far slower onset. Example in humans, using blood acetone concentrations, which are more reliable and accurate than ketosis sticks, a humans level is higher in a mere 39 hours than a canine is in 11 DAYS. Plus if you wanna use the ludicrousity of the so called science of Atkins another case can be made of the difference, in humans when they go off the Atkins diet weight is not only gained back fast it is actually increased. Canines don't experience the same issue due to metabolism and it adapated evolution. Canines evolved so that Ketosis, which is harmful to the body regardless of what "DR." Atkins wants to tell us, does not have that onset and do the damage to internal organs we humans get from it.

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:07 pm

It's been awhile since we heard from Tori...with all sorts of side issues being discussed. I'd like to know what your doing different and how your dog is doing.

kumate · Post by **kumate** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:58 am

"Holy F&%k looks like things never change, still the same old same old. "

Same old people, pretending not to like the same old arguments, but continuing to post and rebut the same old same old .

Jerry

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:33 pm

Duane M wrote: Plus if you wanna use the ludicrousity of the so called science of Atkins another case can be made of the difference, in humans when they go off the Atkins diet weight is not only gained back fast it is actually increased.

I'm not trying to make connections between humans and dogs and weight loss. I am merely pointing out something that I found interesting. It is NOT AT ALL bizarre to me (but apparently it is to most all of you folks) that dogs can lose weight on high performance feeds, even if that formula in calories is smoking the previous diet. In fact, I see that as something to be considered normal, and that has absolutely nothing to do with humans and Atkins, but that is normal for dogs. You indicated that weight comes right back on humans when they go off Atkins. Guess what....take the dog off the higher performance feed and watch the weight come right back on (even if the newer diet is a drop in cals). OK, bringing up Atkins albeit I found that interesting, dumb for there is no connections between the two bodies. However, I still found it very interesting...

Dogs losing weight on high performance feeds is normal...and that has absolutely NO CONNECTIONS in the human biology. Humans gain weight from over ingesting calories, but for dogs that simply does not happen. Dogs can and do lose weight when you up the cals.

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:17 pm

...then again, that would also depend upon how you increased those cals. It's about structure and ingredients. You increase cals with gluten, that's no help. Get fish fat and pork fat in the ration as a means to raise cals (without increases in volume from gluten but rather decreases), that dog will slim down.

tori · Post by **tori** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:26 pm

ok i am back. just got back from a 6 day hunt. could only hunt 3-4 hours a day but still that is pretty good. just got too warm by noon. any way he didnt loose any more weight from before we started this hunt so that is a good sign. between feeding him a little more and adding the nyzymes he gained some of his weight back . not as much as i was looking for in the beginning but i can accept it
his stools and coat look great. no gas. so i came to the decision that the weight he is at is his weight that works for him and wont worry about it anymore. i do believe the nutrisource is working for him better than any of the other high performance feeds i have tried. most others gave him very dry skin, gas, combination of runny stools and or skinnier than he was on the nutrisource. and would definitely loose even more weight after hunting him for a week.
i currently do not have any of these issues.

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:44 pm

Happy to hear things are working out!!..Good information on Nutrisource and Nzymes. Hope to had a good hunt!

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:19 am

YEAH........After 6 pages I am glad to see you post the results Tori, I have a similiar problem with a male, so I can understand somewhat.
Nutrisource has helped him quite a bit as well. I am curious as to where you get your Nutrisource? A feed mill or a retail store? And what do you pay, I am paying $40 for #40, I also think I am going to switch my lab over to there L&R formula......
Also did you split the feeding up into morning and afternoon, or just once a day, just curious.

Good to hear the dog is doing better for you.

Chip

tori · Post by **tori** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:50 pm

chip
i am 40 miles north of houston so i only have 2 retail stores that carry nutrisouce near me at this time. i am paying the same as you. i wanted to get on nutisource this time last year but it was not available near me at that time. and nutrisources main man for this part of the u.s is just north of me in waco. so he is slowly getting more areas to carry it. i have always fed twice a day. i feed my dogs 2-3 hours before we start hunting and i feel that works for me. i dont want to hunt all day on an empty stomach either. just give it time to digest. i like this food i will switch to there off season feed . where do you live chip

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Tori..Where around Houston are you finding it? It's very difficult to find in the Dallas area.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:51 pm

Central Illinois.....I should also add for every 12 bags I buy the 13th is free, so if I put the Lab on there L&R as well that counts also.
Bossman Nutrisource has a dealer distributorship on there webpage.
Bossman try this link
http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/where ... ocation/TX

Chip

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:09 pm

Chip..Great information...Thanks..I do business with a couple of these feed stores and they must have just started carrying it recently. Sent you a PM

tori · Post by **tori** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:57 am

bossman
i buy it in the woodlands. spring has it too. , keep in mind most places probably wont have the performance blend on the shelf but carry the other blends. however i can call in the order monday morning and have it wednesday.