Tournament hunting?

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:25 pm

Does anyone here do this or know much about it? I saw it on the Men's channel or Outdoor life Netowrk a few weeks ago and thought it looked pretty cool.

One thing I like about it is it is judged on time and final production, not style or grace. It looks more designed for a meat hunter than a field trilaer.

Post by **pear** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:41 pm

Here is the website: http://www.tournamenthunter.com/ I've been playing with it for about 3 years now. Lots of fun. It and the UFTA (website:) http://www.ufta-online.com/mainframe.htm , are both run and gun type formats. Any questions just ask...."pear"

Post by **Ayres** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:27 pm

I think I saw one of those on the Men's Channel. You have a gunner and a cameraman, right?

From what I saw it was all big game hunting. I don't know how they'd even fit upland bird hunting into that sort of competitive scheme.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:46 am

It is upland game Steve. 4birds in a 10acre field, 12 shells, and see who can do it quicker with less shots, qith the dog bringing the bird to hand.

Ezzy

sdgord · Post by **sdgord** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:04 am

The show I happened to see, a Gordon bitch won the competition, from what I could tell he was the only one who just followed his dog and shot well. It may have been in the editing that made it seem that the other guys were trying too hard to lead their dogs where the gunner wanted to go. It looks like it would be another fun off season way to keep a dog in the game.Especially if you are somewhat competitive.SDGRD

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:17 am

I unfortunately have had the oppurtunity to watch a few episodes on TV.

Ouch!!!

Can't imagine any other format being so detrimental to good pointing dog work. Seems to be more about the killing than the dog work.

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:45 am

The UFTA events require the dog to hold point till the handler flushes the bird unless the bird volunteers movement on it's own. The bulk of the points are awarded for the bird dead in hand so while a dog can legally move on a walking bird, if they do so while you are 60 yards away, you will not get decent scores. We can discuss the problems with allowing a dog to not be rock solid while you kick the brush in front of him but for most hunters, this is beyond thier needs or wants. The interesting part of these competitions is that the shooter has as much responsibility as the dog. Extra shells used and misses cost you dearly. The nice part is that dogs are expected to retrive shot birds which is important to me as a hunter. I worry more about losing a cripple than walking all day w/o finding a bird.

Scout and I managed our second first place win on Saturday at our UFTA/NBDCA dual sanctioned trial in a 17 dog field. She had won once before in a smaller group against less experienced dogs but this crowd included 1/2 dozen multiple times CH dogs in front of good shooters. She is now 2/3 of the way into the points required to receive her first Open CH title and has the two wins minimum under her belt. The shining moment was her first run with 3 birds pointed, shot and retrieved from a 15-20 acre field in under 5 minutes. Proud of my little home trained girl and glad I didn't drop the ball for her!

Post by **Ayres** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:46 pm

ezzy333 wrote:It is upland game Steve. 4birds in a 10acre field, 12 shells, and see who can do it quicker with less shots, qith the dog bringing the bird to hand.

Ezzy

This I have to see then! I'm sure the one I did see was deer hunting, and then maybe a wild boar hunting. I'll have to pay more attention next time I go channel surfing!

I thought upland game hunting on television was almost extinct.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:51 pm

Do you get OLN Ayers? They have had a good bit of it on lately. I keep getting the itch when i watch it. When the pheasant flies and cackles I keep yelling : SHOOT!

Post by **Ayres** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:54 pm

No OLN for me, I think that's on the next upgrade package. I've got the Dish 100 with locals (I think). The most basic.

I don't even get Animal Planet.

I do have my Bird Dogs Forever DVD though. I watched a little of that a couple nights ago. After watching for awhile though, I found myself yelling at the dog handlers for making mistakes. Then I realized that not every dog is supposed to be trained to the same level and calmed down.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:55 pm

Ckfowler - was that down at the Outback?

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:09 pm

Yes, down at Outback. We will be there again March 18 & 19 and down by Pear's (E of Athens) the 25 & 26th. There is also a NBDCA event Feb 25 & 26 in Van Wert that I hope to go to though it is not dual sanctioned with UFTA. The winner gets an automatic bid for the NBDCA Nationals.

The top half of the field on any given day will look WAY better than most of the dogs I see on TV even though winning isn't a judges opinion of good work. They handle like formula cars or else they are just out for a run/walk and don't get to place. Very viewer friendly and there are events in most states outside New England and the MidAtlantic coast.

Bird Dog 67 · Post by **Bird Dog 67** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:00 pm

Ayres wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:It is upland game Steve. 4birds in a 10acre field, 12 shells, and see who can do it quicker with less shots, qith the dog bringing the bird to hand.

Ezzy
This I have to see then! I'm sure the one I did see was deer hunting, and then maybe a wild boar hunting. I'll have to pay more attention next time I go channel surfing!

I thought upland game hunting on television was almost extinct.

Ayres,

Might you be thinking of "Dream Season" on the outdoor channel?

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:56 pm

Ayres I'm not much on the outdoor shows for several reasons but my dad showed me this tournament hunt one night and I was astounded.
Being I am a hunter and guide with my dog and am not interested in competition I could/would get into this if it weren't for the fact most of the meets and such were in the upper midwest and I'm in the Heartland.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm

Steve, Check the Mens channel on saturday morning. And to set the record straight i have seen the program you are talking about too.

Here in IL we have a group called Illinois Upland that holds 4 trials and then the top dogs are invited to a fifth one to determine the winners.

Lots of fun and wish we had the UFTA closer and active around here. Its the best test of a hunting situation that I have seen.

Ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:35 pm

I think I remember you telling me about the Illinois Upland group at a hunt test last February now that you mention it. This is definately something I'm going to have to look into now that Justus is coming along in his training. Is there a website for the Illinois Upland organization?

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:28 pm

Steve,

http://www.illinoisupland.com/gallery/c ... =&shownew=

Hope this helps.

Ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:38 am

That's it, thanks! Looks like this year's season has begun and the championships will be in March. I'll have to give this tournament hunting a serious look next season.

Have you been to, or competed in one of these this year Ezzy?

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:14 am

I was at the 2nd one at Rack and Wing. I didn't compete since Rush decided he wasn't anxious to retreive to hand very quickly. We are working on that presently. They had approx. 40 dogs and I heard several spectators say they were going to the next one and compete. They are fun and a great way to sprnd some time with friends and dogs.

Ezzy

Huntumup · Post by **Huntumup** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:40 am

I finally got to see my first UFTA field trial. Very interesting, lots of excitement, and lots of shooting. Ckfowler kinda took me under his wing and showed me around and introduced me to some of the current members. Very nice people with exceptional dogs. I think I would like to try this next year after my weim has some more experience. It seems like a competition that is half/half... half of the responcibility is up to the dog and half of the responcibility is up to you as a shooter/trainer. You really get to see people with their dogs working together as a team.

It was kind of a gun noise training day for me too. I have worked with a toy cap pistol but I finnally got to expose my young dog to some distant gun fire, something that I haven't got a chance to work with him yet. He did great.

Colin, Congrats on 1st place!!!

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:06 am

I may be interesed in this format when I get my pup - after some training of course. Maybe I'll run into you down at the Outback.

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:56 am

The teamwork is really what it boils down to. Frustrating when your dog is on fire and you let them down. We have trials at Outback every other month, Eric has them by Athens and Brian runs some in Van Wert so Ohio has plenty of opportunity. UFTA also has trials in KY, IN, TN, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, and MO. NBDCA has them in WY, CO, IA, KS, MN, WI, and IL. Lots of fun and really good people with a little less concern about who is who's favorite.

bigbyrd97 · Post by **bigbyrd97** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:25 am

I just went to my first gun dog challenge(what the promoter called it) last weekend. 3 birds and 6 shells for single hunter, 4 birds and 8 shells for 2 hunters. 25 minute time limit with pointing and flushing catagories, points for point/flush, full retrieve, shells left and time left. points taken away for partial or no retrieve. It was a great time and to my suprise my dog and I came in second and missed first place by one point. If only I was a better shot. There were only eight dogs in the pointing catagory, but I was real happy with my dogs performance with the wind changing directions like it did. I plan on going back next year and bringing another dog.

ViniferaVizslas · Post by **ViniferaVizslas** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:43 pm

Ayres wrote:That's it, thanks! Looks like this year's season has begun and the championships will be in March. I'll have to give this tournament hunting a serious look next season.

Have you been to, or competed in one of these this year Ezzy?

It's not really my thing (I'd have to work on my shooting) but I know several people that participate. A member of my NAVHDA chapter has won the Top Gun pointer class championship twice. Naturally, he has a Vizsla.

OldSchoolSpringer · Post by **OldSchoolSpringer** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:16 am

I cant stand them Im many ways they promote poor dog work.
Since when is hunting supose to be a race against the clock.

larue · Post by **larue** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:10 am

I ran the run and gun tournaments with max,after navhda before
I started field trials,the are a handling,speed game.
I remember killing 4 birds in 3.30 minutes,and shooting so fast as you almost cut them in half.
I myself thought they were too much money for an entry,but
For a guy who wants to be compete with a dog that is not broke,
it could be a fun event.Sort of the opposite of trials.
No judgeing,just plain score keeping.

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:39 am

Speed is certainly a factor but not the only one. The format allows some errors other trials would not but requires handling and retrieving that they may leave out. I would venture that less than 1/2 of the hunting dogs in the field ate steady to wing and shot, much less fall and that many of the hunters have neither the skill, need, nor interest in them being so. These formats allow the common hunter to showcase the talents that thier dog has, spend more time enjoying the field with them, and sometimes sparks them to aspire to more difficult training regimens. Each style or format has it's place and strengths.

Since the areas I hunt do not have large coveys of birds and the property 500 yards away belongs to someone I do not have permission from, the western horseback trial dog is grossly constrained to be successful for me. The NSTRA or Tournament dog accustomed to finding every last single in the small area we are allowed and retrieving that precious cripple is more at home for me. Granted, that dog may struggle on chukars or covering wide open praries and the horseback dog may rein in but these will be stretches from customary style for them. The basic purpose for the hunting dog was to help the hunter be more successful bagging game. Any dog that can accomplish this deserves some laud even if it falls short of some standards for behavior WE have created in how that is done.

Post by **pear** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:59 am

As this type of trial, continues to grow in popularity. The rules are beginning to, become more and more tough. They have a ways to go, but more emphasis, is beginning to be placed on the steadiness. With these venues starting to show up on TV, people want to see better dog work and the promoters are rapidly picking up on that point...."pear"

bigbyrd97 · Post by **bigbyrd97** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:37 am

I'm going to agree with some of you and disagree with some others. I don't think the event I went to promoted poor dog work, there were some very good dogs there, flushers and pointers. There were some young dogs there weren't as steady to wing and shot as others but from what I've read about hunt test they would make junior hunter. My dog is steady to wing, shot and fall. Alot of these guys brought there kids (a few 10, 12 and 15 year olds)and hunted with them. They viewed it as a chance to kids out there and have fun and work there dogs before the season ended. I guess this event I went to wasn't a serious event more of a fun one.
Ckfowler is right about it leading to other things, I plan on doing a few hunt test/field trials this year. I went to this to meet people who did that and met a few and another reason I went is I figured any time I can get my dogs on birds it's a good thing for them and me. My dog performed very well and we took 2nd place (a vizsla beat us

)
Before I forget there were 30-35 dogs there working on 3 different fields and the event still didn't get over until dark, that's why there is a time limit.

OldSchoolSpringer · Post by **OldSchoolSpringer** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:19 am

Speaking from a flushing point of view, YES dog work is horrible.A Flusher supose pattern the wind and cover all his ground. Those flushers blow out on straight line with hunter running through the field chasing yelling and whistling loudly.

These events are everything a flushing gundog should not be!

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:06 am

I have seen some of the "run for the woodsline" flushers but the dogs that have been winning in the six flushing trials we've had were all push button, turn on a dime handlers that often never saw the far end of the field because they didn't need to go that far to find thier birds. Good dog work is usually effective dog work too, even if birds are planted where wild ones might not usually be found.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:00 pm

I think we all need to stop and think about the standards that we think a good dog must have. What we are really saying is what we think a good dog should be to do whqat I want the dog to do. It is in no way poorer dog work when a dog runs a straight line if that is what it takes to win in this competition. It is just another case of a dog being good enough to do what its trainer wants it to do. We all get caught up in judging our dogs by a standard that we have made up that allows the dog to perform well in our venue. And our venue is nothing more than what we enjoy, neither better or worse than some other venue.

In out Illinois Upland series you are disqualified for running and we have classes for steady dogs as well as those that aren't. Our Top Gun series is for one hunter and the dog is scored on steadiness. Open is for one or two hunters with one dog and the dog does not get scored on steadiness. Puppy Class is the same standard as is the youth handler classes. Of course, flushers and pointers are seperated. It's a good format for hunters and is well attended by just that. And in no way does it promote poor dog work. The dog sitting home in the kennels is what promotes poor dog work. But I agree it isn't judged on the same standard as a field trial and maybe slightly different from what you want when you are hunting but if it is it sure is close.

NSTRA and UFTA and AKC and AF all have different standards since the rules of each game is different. But the thing we need to remember is each venue is a game thought up by hunters that liked to compete with each other in the off season. As time went on, we developed more sophisticated rules so we could determine which dog did better. Now we are at the place where many people are losing sight of what a dog was really for and are thinking any dog that doesn't conform to their standard is inferior and it just ain't true.

If your dog does what you want it to it is the best dog in the world and forget what anyone else thinks.

Ezzy

bigbyrd97 · Post by **bigbyrd97** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:08 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think we all need to stop and think about the standards that we think a good dog must have. What we are really saying is what we think a good dog should be to do whqat I want the dog to do. It is in no way poorer dog work when a dog runs a straight line if that is what it takes to win in this competition. It is just another case of a dog being good enough to do what its trainer wants it to do. We all get caught up in judging our dogs by a standard that we have made up that allows the dog to perform well in our venue. And our venue is nothing more than what we enjoy, neither better or worse than some other venue.

In out Illinois Upland series you are disqualified for running and we have classes for steady dogs as well as those that aren't. Our Top Gun series is for one hunter and the dog is scored on steadiness. Open is for one or two hunters with one dog and the dog does not get scored on steadiness. Puppy Class is the same standard as is the youth handler classes. Of course, flushers and pointers are seperated. It's a good format for hunters and is well attended by just that. And in no way does it promote poor dog work. The dog sitting home in the kennels is what promotes poor dog work. But I agree it isn't judged on the same standard as a field trial and maybe slightly different from what you want when you are hunting but if it is it sure is close.

NSTRA and UFTA and AKC and AF all have different standards since the rules of each game is different. But the thing we need to remember is each venue is a game thought up by hunters that liked to compete with each other in the off season. As time went on, we developed more sophisticated rules so we could determine which dog did better. Now we are at the place where many people are losing sight of what a dog was really for and are thinking any dog that doesn't conform to their standard is inferior and it just ain't true.

If your dog does what you want it to it is the best dog in the world and forget what anyone else thinks.

Ezzy

Ezzy I couldn't agree more. All the dogs I watched at the competition hunted for their owner. I didn't see a single dog take off and not listen to their owner.

Tournament hunting?

Tournament hunting?

tournament hunting

OldSchoolSpringer

OldSchoolSpringer