shy pup.

[narrow acres]

hello. I have a 1 year old english setter that is horribly shy.she has always been shy but is getting much worse. when I approach her she will cower when a stranger comes to the house and gets near the dog she will actually start to scream and run away to hide. she minds very well otherwise is no gun shy and plays with the other dogs normally. I have never come across this problem. any insight would be appreciated thanks. no she has never been hit and was never teased

[Chukar12]

I am assuming that at some point you consulted your vet for a physical check up? Is there any history of this behavior in the breeding where the dog has come from? If there isn't something physically wrong causing some type of neurosis it sounds like the dog has been too isolated. If that is the case, you can recover some normal social behavior but it will be a slow process that takes plenty of patience. In my opinion, it all starts with the walk. I would begin a routine of walking the dog at heel, use a pinch collar and insure compliance be firm and confident but not forceful. As the dog gains confidence gradually increase the exposure to people on walks, parks, shopping areas, streets, etc...

If you cannot break this cycle soon, I would actively seek the help of a training professional. Not neccesarily a gun dog trainer, but someone who specializes in behaviors I am sure your vet can help.

[tailcrackin]

How does she do with birds? Or what have you done with her and birds together? You can pm me if you would like, I will get a better feel of things with this added info. If a dog likes birds, you can work it, if she has no experience with birds, this will be the start of pulling her outta the shell, possibly. I probably wouldnt worry alot yet, all dogs are different. We gotta work together an figure out what makes her "Tick", Thanks Jonesy

[Tall Boy]

The walks are good, just make sure that everything is always upbeat, never negative. That's not to say ler her get away with everything, be cool, calm and just. You can try allowing the dog to great outside of the house prior to a person coming in, treats work real well; something she really likes, piece of liver/steak.

Had a dog in class once that was the same way, probably much worse. Took weeks for her to even begin to get curious, and interested in the other owners. Once she started showing a wanting to meet, although she was still very shy and wouldnt dare approach a person, we gave everybody a treat and began by getting the dog's attention dropping the treat then wandering off. Eventually she would run from person to person looking for a treat, we quit giving her treats and she was good to go.

When a stranger comes in the house, does the dog leave the room, or come to you? You say she's a year old, how far in training are you? Have you noticed hand movements, or a loud friend trigger it, or make it worse?

[Sharon]

I don't want to discourage you , but I believe in reality. Some of the advice given would be great for a pup , but she is a year old.

I had a dog like that.

It only got worse to the point where the vet couldn't get near her and she was a liability wherever I took her. It broke my heart but I put her down at 3 before someone got hurt. She was not aggressive but everything and everyone , except me, frightened her and she would lash out in fear. I also had to consider the kind of life she must have been experiencing , being that afraid all the time.

She was from a bad breeding - before I knew any better.

[birddogger]

Sharon, not saying this is necessarily the case with the OP, but you make a really good point. In your case, I admire what you did. For somebody that loves dogs like I know you do and can still face reality and make a tough decision like that is to be commended.

Charlie

[Sharon]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Tall Boy]

We get a lot of fear-biters in for training. Some make it, some don't and some end up living with me. Some dogs can never come out of it, and if a proper owner can't be found, well then...

[Ruffshooter]

Just two stories:

One saw a little tiny french brit that was similar, no screaching but hiding behind stuff, hiding behind who ever had the leashe etc. We just started training her and found she was bird crazy and absolutely loved the work. She had not been around many folks. She was always timid but would warm up to people.

15 years ago or so I went to a George Hickox Training week seminar. All the dogs were on a Chanin Gain. He went up to each one loved em up assesed their peronalities and talked to us about it. He got to one 4 or 5 year old ES, This dog tried to run, when it figured out it could not get away it would try to bite and fight. Kept doing it. Till George through a lead over its head. Then when the dog came at him he lifted up till the dog was on its hind toes, till the dog stopped fighting. A couple times of this and the dog would let George pat him and stroke him up. The Dog never tried to bite him or get away from him again. (This dog lived in a gated house on the NJ shore, never saw any other folks just he old couple. The man was a hunter but never did take this dog out, (beacause of fear of fight, loosing the dog etc.)

George told the man that the week of his normal training seminars would not be appropriate for this dog at that time. But he asked the man if he minded if he used the week to Force fetch the dog. He told the man (An orthopedic doctor) what this would entail and some times it would not be pretty. The man agreed. The dog did all the normal fighting of being on the bench tied to the post, to the bumper, biting, everything one is leary of from FF on the bench. George was always let the dog work it out and let the dog give in on its own. Some of us would stay and watch. Each time after the short sessions were done, no matter how much the dog was fighting, he always went and sat next to George wagging his tail. George never, ever hurt the dog the dog just fought every step with all it could then would give in.

By the end of the week, You would never know that dog had any problems at all, he would run be fine with near every one did not try to bite or get away none of the behaviors. The man ended up having George train the dog later on. I heard it turned into a good hunter and family dog.

Just needed structure, discipline and confidence building.

Obviously George is a proffessional and can read dogs really well. Hopefully I am not forgetting something important but these things are what stood out to me and I remember.

Rick

[tailcrackin]

confidence building.

Those are two great words.
"Everything a dog does, is for a reason....wether or not positive, or negative, it is for a reason."

Myself, I wont stand for the breeding crutch, without trying or doing some other things first.
I havent heard anything back on the bird stuff. Alot of times when a dog likes the bird, or is interested in the bird.......when you throw one or two into the program and still work on things with the checkcord. The dog wont or doesnt have time to focus on what you are doing, or why your doing things, you can be allowed to put your hands on an get some work done.......because everything will be done in smaller steps, and will have a bird attached in the outing between you two. Which in turn, gets the dog to loosen an get excited on things. Thanks Jonesy

[Sharon]

"Just needs structure, discipline and confidence building."

I wish it was that simple with a poorly bred, abused , fear biting dog. I 'm quite sure that anyone who has every had to put a dog down , has tried everything possible , over several years, first. Unless you've had a dog like that , you can't really understand.

[Ruffshooter]

Sharon, no one is attacking YOUR decision to put that dog down. You tried everything you knew and came to a difficult decision. We do understand. (why would we not? ) What is being offered here is possible opportunity to help. If the methods or ideas do not work then a decision may have to be made.

[slistoe]

"Just needed structure, discipline and confidence building."

I wish it was that simple with a poorly bred, abused , fear biting dog. I 'm quite sure that anyone who has every had to put a dog down , has tried everything possible , over several years, first. Unless you've had a dog like that , you can't really understand.

You changed a word and that changed everything. That particular dog was not your particular dog.

[Sharon]

Sorry. I'm too sensitive on the subject I guess .

[narrow acres]

thanks to everyone who replied so far. lot of good ideas.as tailcrackin asked. yes she is very birdy.and sharon. that possibility has crossed my mind. that could not have been an easy decision. thank you for your help . I think I will start working with just her. and let the other dogs take a break for a while. just having her with me will introduce her to new places and people.and she will get a lot more time in the field one on one hopefully she will start to get over this. I have been around setters all my life and have never seen one like this. usually I have to peel them off visitors

[gonehuntin']

First, let me say I agree with Sharon that this dog should never be bred and should probably be put down BUT.

I've had a few like that in for training and I've made more or less, workable dogs of all of them. But it takes a heck of a lot of time.

If the dog isn't birdy, you have nothing.

The first thing I did with a dog like this was to tie it out in the kennel where it could watch me train the other dogs. I would have my clients sit near the dog, at the end of the leash, and casually give it pieces of hot dog as we were training. If they could pet the dog, they petted it.

On off hours, and once the dog was used to clients, I'd take it to a shopping center and let people pet the dog as they walked by. This was done only when the dog was over the fear biting. I was lucky and got every dog past it, but NOT A ONE OF THEM was ever a dog I wanted around my house or wanted to own.

I think a dog like this, unless it has a physical problem, has a screw loose and really isn't worth messing with. At a year old, you're probably further ahead starting over again with a dog out of good bloodlines and writing this one off as a mistake.

With luck, you have a hunting dog for 12-15 years and I'd sure rather spend that time with a sociable, well trained hunting dog than a bolting fear biter.

[Sharon]

Excellent post! The problem is , we don't get smart until we get old. If I knew then what I know now - that life goes by so fast and you will only have a few dogs to enjoy - I would have made different decisions about which dogs to keep trying with.

[sstam]

hi -
i'm new to this forum and joined because i have an english setter that has similar shyness, but not quite so severe.

if you all wouldn't mind offering your two cents it would be much appreciated

we got gunther, a 4 year old rescue, 7 months ago from a rescue league. he is relaxed and happy inside, does really well on the leash while we're walking and running, and is very focused on birds when he's out in the yard. we do not hunt with him and have no plans to, but would like to train him in that capacity since that's what he's bred to do. i have no idea if he's had training as a gun dog, maybe very little since he is just terrified of loud pops, bangs, fireworks and large trucks.

when we're outside walking he is somewhat sociable - he might approach another dog or a person, or he might not - and that's the extent of the interaction. he is not very friendly or jumpy or excited to see people (except us). the situation completley changes when we're inside our house or in our yard. if a guest approaches him in any way, either by extending a hand, making eye contact, or walking too close to him, he will growl and slink away. there was one instance where he was surprised from behind, and he barked and snapped, but did not lunge to bite.

i have tried to manage the situation by keeping him tethered and separated from guests, and clearly informing people not to approach, pet or look at him - i ask them to please ignore him. i would like him to feel relaxed, and like all guests of ours are non-threatening, i'm just not sure how to go about it.

so my question - do you think he can become more comfortable with strangers over time, and what do you think i should do to enable this?

thanks thanks thanks for your help.
sarah

[Sharon]

He thinks the home is his territory. He needs to learn that it is YOUR territory. Personally I wouldn't be too gentle with this dog when he reacts like that. I would keep him on a leash and have some GOOD friends come over and discipline the dog when he reacts that way. Just what I'd do. He needs to know that you have things under control ( guests) and he can relax.

Putting him away is a good idea as far as safety goes but he won't get any better doing that.

Sometimes a reaction when being approached from behind , indicates a peripheral vision/hearing problem.

[Chukar12]

That is good advice from Sharon ... but if your confidence is not high get some professional help ... a few bucks spent with an expert has always been a great education for me

[sstam]

thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

i will seek the advice of a trainer, i'd like to resolve this quickly.
i'll let you know how it goes.

[narrow acres]

First, let me say I agree with Sharon that this dog should never be bred and should probably be put down BUT.

I've had a few like that in for training and I've made more or less, workable dogs of all of them. But it takes a heck of a lot of time.

If the dog isn't birdy, you have nothing.

The first thing I did with a dog like this was to tie it out in the kennel where it could watch me train the other dogs. I would have my clients sit near the dog, at the end of the leash, and casually give it pieces of hot dog as we were training. If they could pet the dog, they petted it.

On off hours, and once the dog was used to clients, I'd take it to a shopping center and let people pet the dog as they walked by. This was done only when the dog was over the fear biting. I was lucky and got every dog past it, but NOT A ONE OF THEM was ever a dog I wanted around my house or wanted to own.

I think a dog like this, unless it has a physical problem, has a screw loose and really isn't worth messing with. At a year old, you're probably further ahead starting over again with a dog out of good bloodlines and writing this one off as a mistake.

With luck, you have a hunting dog for 12-15 years and I'd sure rather spend that time with a sociable, well trained hunting dog than a bolting fear biter.

first off no one said anything about breeding the dog. and if you had read my posts you would find I stated she was very birdy. and how do you know this dog is not from good bloodlines? and where did fear biting come into play? I do not remember saying anything about fear biting.